WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by switchtitle 1 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:15.583 This is Self-Directed Research. 2 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.041 James and Amos are back with 3 00:00:17.041 --> 00:00:18.291 hyper-focused deep dives. 4 00:00:18.875 --> 00:00:19.666 James is up this week 5 00:00:19.666 --> 00:00:21.333 with "Typst is pretty neat." 6 00:00:22.166 --> 00:00:23.500 Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe 7 00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:24.500 wherever you find us. 8 00:00:24.750 --> 00:00:25.666 And as always, visit 9 00:00:25.666 --> 00:00:28.750 sdr-podcast.com/episodes for all the 10 00:00:28.750 --> 00:00:29.833 presentations, videos, 11 00:00:30.250 --> 00:00:31.208 show notes, and transcripts. 12 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.583 Stay tuned to the end to hear more about 13 00:00:33.583 --> 00:00:35.208 Depot, the sponsor of this episode. 14 00:00:42.666 --> 00:00:42.916 Cool. 15 00:00:43.625 --> 00:00:45.208 Trying a slightly different mic position. 16 00:00:45.458 --> 00:00:46.583 Hopefully, that's not an issue. 17 00:00:47.166 --> 00:00:48.000 I need something to go 18 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.416 with my ask for the audience. 19 00:00:49.416 --> 00:00:51.333 I just need to have a big red band over 20 00:00:51.333 --> 00:00:52.375 here that's just like, 21 00:00:52.375 --> 00:00:53.208 "Don't look over here. 22 00:00:53.541 --> 00:00:54.541 Just don't." 23 00:00:54.875 --> 00:00:55.125 Right. 24 00:00:55.166 --> 00:00:57.458 No head turn further than 25 00:00:57.458 --> 00:00:58.708 like, "Face the camera." 26 00:00:59.625 --> 00:01:03.333 There's a scene in Orange Mécanique. 27 00:01:03.666 --> 00:01:05.291 I forget the name of the English thing. 28 00:01:05.416 --> 00:01:06.166 A Clockwork Orange? 29 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:07.375 A Clockwork Orange. 30 00:01:08.500 --> 00:01:10.291 Where he's like like this and 31 00:01:10.291 --> 00:01:11.333 they make him look at things. 32 00:01:11.333 --> 00:01:12.583 I don't know what they're making him look 33 00:01:12.583 --> 00:01:14.000 at, I forget, but you should put whatever 34 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:15.250 that is where you 35 00:01:15.250 --> 00:01:16.208 shouldn't look, whatever. 36 00:01:17.458 --> 00:01:19.625 Well, if you had the big, the big, the big... 37 00:01:19.750 --> 00:01:20.708 I'll put a jump-scare over here 38 00:01:20.875 --> 00:01:21.833 You should put those 39 00:01:21.833 --> 00:01:23.458 on and crank up the gain. 40 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:25.458 Because then if you plosive, you will 41 00:01:25.458 --> 00:01:26.083 hear it immediately. 42 00:01:26.458 --> 00:01:27.125 It will punish you. 43 00:01:27.125 --> 00:01:27.333 That's fair. 44 00:01:27.916 --> 00:01:28.333 That's fair. 45 00:01:28.333 --> 00:01:30.416 I have no immediate feedback because it's 46 00:01:30.416 --> 00:01:31.166 distracting and it 47 00:01:31.166 --> 00:01:32.916 breaks my train of thought. 48 00:01:33.291 --> 00:01:33.583 Really? 49 00:01:33.958 --> 00:01:35.875 Well, with any delay, yes. 50 00:01:36.375 --> 00:01:37.708 But with direct monitoring through the 51 00:01:37.708 --> 00:01:39.375 USB interface, I'm well... 52 00:01:40.083 --> 00:01:41.250 It's probably just a habit. 53 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:42.041 Like because I never 54 00:01:42.041 --> 00:01:43.375 have it, I'm not used to it. 55 00:01:43.375 --> 00:01:44.458 I'm sure if I did it for a 56 00:01:44.458 --> 00:01:45.458 week, it would make sense. 57 00:01:45.458 --> 00:01:46.416 Or if I recorded as many 58 00:01:46.416 --> 00:01:48.583 videos as you have, I would. 59 00:01:48.583 --> 00:01:50.541 Well, I don't have feedback when I record 60 00:01:50.541 --> 00:01:51.833 videos because I'm just 61 00:01:51.833 --> 00:01:53.541 standing below a boom mic. 62 00:01:53.875 --> 00:01:54.708 But yeah, 63 00:01:55.125 --> 00:01:56.500 I think I just need a boom mic is 64 00:01:56.500 --> 00:01:57.333 probably what I need. 65 00:01:57.625 --> 00:01:59.208 No! Not for this. 66 00:01:59.708 --> 00:02:01.000 I have a big fuzzy shotgun. 67 00:02:01.333 --> 00:02:02.166 Just mount it to... 68 00:02:02.916 --> 00:02:03.125 No. 69 00:02:03.583 --> 00:02:04.166 Oh, yes. 70 00:02:04.416 --> 00:02:04.958 OK, yes. 71 00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:06.500 But only if you treat your 72 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:08.333 entire room acoustically. 73 00:02:08.333 --> 00:02:08.625 Oh, OK. 74 00:02:09.166 --> 00:02:09.750 Are you telling me that 75 00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:11.208 the hard plastic and wood... 76 00:02:11.458 --> 00:02:11.916 Doesn't have a nice 77 00:02:11.916 --> 00:02:14.166 sound dampening material? 78 00:02:14.458 --> 00:02:15.958 No, but I just need to put crushed velvet 79 00:02:15.958 --> 00:02:17.041 all over everything. 80 00:02:17.041 --> 00:02:18.833 It's not as bad as where I record, where 81 00:02:18.833 --> 00:02:20.250 it's mirrors and glass. 82 00:02:21.375 --> 00:02:23.750 So wood is already not that bad... 83 00:02:23.750 --> 00:02:24.916 Do you record in a dance studio? 84 00:02:25.458 --> 00:02:27.625 I will show you my studio eventually. 85 00:02:28.291 --> 00:02:29.958 No, no, no, it's just a room, but it has 86 00:02:29.958 --> 00:02:31.291 those big open windows. 87 00:02:31.291 --> 00:02:32.708 You have like hard walls and stuff. 88 00:02:33.041 --> 00:02:33.416 Yeah. 89 00:02:33.416 --> 00:02:33.875 And hard walls. 90 00:02:34.125 --> 00:02:36.916 And it's not even a cube because the roof 91 00:02:36.916 --> 00:02:37.750 is at an angle because 92 00:02:37.750 --> 00:02:38.875 it's right below the roof. 93 00:02:39.208 --> 00:02:40.083 The ceiling is at an angle. 94 00:02:40.416 --> 00:02:41.958 I have a friend who's like an audio and 95 00:02:41.958 --> 00:02:44.666 mastering engineer, and he built a like 96 00:02:44.666 --> 00:02:46.458 shed studio for himself. 97 00:02:46.666 --> 00:02:50.375 And they actually built the walls not at 98 00:02:50.375 --> 00:02:53.541 90 degree angles on purpose because it's 99 00:02:53.541 --> 00:02:55.250 better for diffusing-- 100 00:02:55.250 --> 00:02:56.666 So like he treated the whole room, but 101 00:02:56.666 --> 00:02:59.541 also all the walls are like slightly-- like 102 00:02:59.541 --> 00:03:01.375 five degrees off on purpose. 103 00:03:03.125 --> 00:03:04.083 That's a good shirt idea. 104 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.041 "Five degrees off on purpose." 105 00:03:07.208 --> 00:03:08.458 Merch, merch, merch! 106 00:03:09.458 --> 00:03:09.750 All right. 107 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:11.500 This is an episode where I am more 108 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:13.250 excited than informed. 109 00:03:13.583 --> 00:03:14.208 Are you ready, Amos? 110 00:03:14.583 --> 00:03:15.666 That is the whole 111 00:03:15.666 --> 00:03:17.125 entire idea of this podcast. 112 00:03:17.416 --> 00:03:18.333 I am so ready. 113 00:03:18.666 --> 00:03:21.125 I feel like some days we're informed and 114 00:03:21.125 --> 00:03:22.166 reluctantly excited. 115 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.291 And then some days, some days we come 116 00:03:24.291 --> 00:03:26.500 firing in like "I learned a thing!" 117 00:03:26.750 --> 00:03:27.958 And this is one of those. 118 00:03:27.958 --> 00:03:29.333 This is one of those days because last 119 00:03:29.333 --> 00:03:32.666 week I picked up a tool called Typst, 120 00:03:33.166 --> 00:03:35.375 which I've been having an eye on for a 121 00:03:35.375 --> 00:03:37.333 long while, but finally came up with a 122 00:03:37.333 --> 00:03:38.916 couple of things that I needed it for. 123 00:03:38.916 --> 00:03:41.500 And it's that classic like I can't learn 124 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:43.541 something new until I have like two 125 00:03:43.541 --> 00:03:45.500 specific projects that I need it for. 126 00:03:45.958 --> 00:03:46.958 Because otherwise I'll just read all the 127 00:03:46.958 --> 00:03:47.791 docs for forever and 128 00:03:47.791 --> 00:03:48.708 go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. 129 00:03:48.708 --> 00:03:51.375 Makes sense." and retain none of it. 130 00:03:51.583 --> 00:03:52.916 And then the moment that I have real 131 00:03:52.916 --> 00:03:55.833 projects to put together with it's, "Oh, OK. 132 00:03:55.833 --> 00:03:56.458 Now it sticks." 133 00:03:56.875 --> 00:03:57.791 So this is Typst. 134 00:03:57.791 --> 00:04:00.458 I thought it was pronounced "tipst" actually... 135 00:04:00.458 --> 00:04:01.041 I don't know. 136 00:04:01.291 --> 00:04:02.375 This is one of those that I've never 137 00:04:02.375 --> 00:04:03.875 talked to someone in person about it. 138 00:04:03.875 --> 00:04:05.666 So I'm saying like type like type. 139 00:04:05.666 --> 00:04:06.916 It is T-Y-P-S-T. 140 00:04:07.208 --> 00:04:07.541 Yeah. 141 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.625 Just for the readers who are not reading 142 00:04:09.625 --> 00:04:11.083 the slides available at 143 00:04:11.125 --> 00:04:14.250 sdr-podcast.com/episodes 144 00:04:15.833 --> 00:04:17.083 Well, I mean, they're based out of 145 00:04:17.083 --> 00:04:18.541 Berlin, so it might be "Typst" (German accent). 146 00:04:18.916 --> 00:04:19.500 I don't know. 147 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:19.875 We'll see. 148 00:04:20.458 --> 00:04:22.250 But I think Typst is pretty neat. 149 00:04:23.125 --> 00:04:25.333 So as a TLDR for someone who hasn't heard 150 00:04:25.333 --> 00:04:27.708 of it before, Typst is basically a 151 00:04:27.708 --> 00:04:29.083 programming language for documents. 152 00:04:29.791 --> 00:04:31.500 And this isn't a particularly 153 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:33.291 revolutionary thing. 154 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.958 You might have heard of LaTeX before. 155 00:04:36.291 --> 00:04:38.000 LaTeX is one of those like what is it? 156 00:04:38.625 --> 00:04:39.416 It wasn't Kernighan. 157 00:04:39.666 --> 00:04:41.708 It was the other C guy. 158 00:04:41.916 --> 00:04:43.000 But it was it's one of those he made it 159 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.750 in a cave out of a box of scraps. 160 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.208 Like he was typesetting the um... it was 161 00:04:47.208 --> 00:04:48.875 Ritchie, I think, because it's K&R. 162 00:04:48.875 --> 00:04:50.208 It was when Ritchie was typesetting. 163 00:04:50.208 --> 00:04:51.791 I think the original one of the original 164 00:04:51.791 --> 00:04:52.958 textbooks was like -- 165 00:04:53.041 --> 00:04:53.791 Knuth. 166 00:04:53.875 --> 00:04:54.625 What, was it Knuth? 167 00:04:54.625 --> 00:04:55.000 You're right. 168 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.083 It was Donald Knuth who made TeX. 169 00:04:57.125 --> 00:04:57.708 Yeah. 170 00:04:57.916 --> 00:04:59.541 I'm forgetting my C 171 00:04:59.541 --> 00:05:01.083 language luminaries here. 172 00:05:01.291 --> 00:05:02.416 Or I'm getting them muddled up. 173 00:05:02.416 --> 00:05:03.250 But yeah, it's one of those 174 00:05:03.250 --> 00:05:05.666 needed a typesetting tool. 175 00:05:05.833 --> 00:05:09.500 So wrote one and basically the entire 176 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:12.833 like university paper writer and a lot of 177 00:05:12.833 --> 00:05:14.333 professional bookmakers and stuff have 178 00:05:14.333 --> 00:05:15.916 been using something not 179 00:05:15.916 --> 00:05:18.625 terribly far out of the TeX family. 180 00:05:18.625 --> 00:05:20.708 So it's about LaTeX but it's I guess 181 00:05:20.708 --> 00:05:23.875 it's T-E-X like tex and then 182 00:05:23.875 --> 00:05:25.958 LaTeX is how I always see it. 183 00:05:25.958 --> 00:05:28.000 But I never really learned LaTeX even 184 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.708 because I never did a PhD in university. 185 00:05:30.125 --> 00:05:32.208 So I was never a researcher and I never 186 00:05:32.208 --> 00:05:32.958 had to actually 187 00:05:32.958 --> 00:05:35.041 typeset anything seriously. 188 00:05:35.708 --> 00:05:37.375 So I've managed to go almost my entire 189 00:05:37.375 --> 00:05:39.666 software career using either graphical 190 00:05:39.666 --> 00:05:42.416 editors like Word or like Google Docs or 191 00:05:42.416 --> 00:05:43.750 whatever or Markdown. 192 00:05:44.416 --> 00:05:45.416 Tremendous amount of my customers 193 00:05:45.416 --> 00:05:47.625 actually just prefer Markdown for even 194 00:05:47.625 --> 00:05:50.250 serious reports because they stick it in 195 00:05:50.250 --> 00:05:52.000 the docs folder of their repos and then 196 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.708 no one has to worry about losing it. 197 00:05:53.708 --> 00:05:55.416 And if I'm making architecture diagrams 198 00:05:55.416 --> 00:05:57.000 and stuff, it's great because it goes in 199 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.541 the repo or I end up copying and pasting 200 00:05:59.541 --> 00:06:01.375 it into their wiki or 201 00:06:01.375 --> 00:06:02.583 whatever I end up using it for. 202 00:06:02.833 --> 00:06:04.375 And you can diff it and everything. 203 00:06:04.708 --> 00:06:05.125 Yeah. 204 00:06:05.208 --> 00:06:05.666 Yeah. 205 00:06:06.083 --> 00:06:08.000 And so this is always the benefit of 206 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:12.625 using Markdown over Word or .docx or just 207 00:06:12.625 --> 00:06:14.583 PDFs really is that it's easy to diff. 208 00:06:15.041 --> 00:06:16.958 And there are some tools for diffing PDFs 209 00:06:16.958 --> 00:06:18.375 and there's change tracking, but they 210 00:06:18.375 --> 00:06:20.125 don't jive well with the normal software 211 00:06:20.125 --> 00:06:21.083 development practice. 212 00:06:21.375 --> 00:06:23.208 But yeah, these are languages that are 213 00:06:23.208 --> 00:06:24.291 used for typesetting. 214 00:06:24.583 --> 00:06:26.958 So you write your actual text, but you 215 00:06:26.958 --> 00:06:28.625 also write things like: hey, I want a 216 00:06:28.625 --> 00:06:30.958 table here with this many columns and 217 00:06:30.958 --> 00:06:32.708 this width of the column or I want my 218 00:06:32.708 --> 00:06:34.291 margins to be this, my 219 00:06:34.291 --> 00:06:35.666 number of columns to be whatever. 220 00:06:35.958 --> 00:06:37.541 And it's a programming language and it 221 00:06:37.541 --> 00:06:38.833 has a compiler and you 222 00:06:38.833 --> 00:06:40.041 run the compiler on it. 223 00:06:40.041 --> 00:06:42.208 And instead of putting out a binary, it 224 00:06:42.208 --> 00:06:45.916 spits out a PDF or an SVG or whatever 225 00:06:45.916 --> 00:06:46.833 you'd like it to be. 226 00:06:47.125 --> 00:06:49.166 So these are interesting because they do 227 00:06:49.166 --> 00:06:51.041 sort of then come back around to the 228 00:06:51.041 --> 00:06:53.291 programming workflow where you can put 229 00:06:53.291 --> 00:06:55.041 them in a Git repo and you can have 230 00:06:55.041 --> 00:06:57.583 shared components and you can have all of 231 00:06:57.583 --> 00:06:58.541 these kind of things. 232 00:06:58.541 --> 00:07:00.208 And I've not ever used 233 00:07:00.208 --> 00:07:01.625 LaTeX, but have you, Amos? 234 00:07:02.083 --> 00:07:04.500 I have, but I've never been 235 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:05.791 a serious researcher either. 236 00:07:06.208 --> 00:07:07.083 I think the name for 237 00:07:07.083 --> 00:07:08.125 this podcast is a fraud. 238 00:07:08.666 --> 00:07:09.666 Neither of us have been researchers. 239 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:11.083 We're independent researchers. 240 00:07:11.458 --> 00:07:11.791 We are. 241 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:12.625 We decided to do 242 00:07:12.625 --> 00:07:14.375 consulting instead of PhDs. 243 00:07:14.375 --> 00:07:16.958 So you floated this topic recently and I 244 00:07:16.958 --> 00:07:19.666 said my own experience is through LyX, 245 00:07:19.958 --> 00:07:22.291 L-Y-X, which was a 246 00:07:22.291 --> 00:07:23.458 WYSIWYG editor for LaTeX. 247 00:07:23.916 --> 00:07:25.375 What I think very funny about the history 248 00:07:25.375 --> 00:07:27.083 of TeX, if I may interject for a second, 249 00:07:27.083 --> 00:07:30.250 is that Knuth made it because the first-- 250 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:31.791 I'm going to read straight up from 251 00:07:31.791 --> 00:07:33.125 Wikipedia, which is 50% of 252 00:07:33.125 --> 00:07:34.250 what making a podcast is. 253 00:07:34.500 --> 00:07:36.708 The first edition of his book was typeset 254 00:07:36.708 --> 00:07:37.500 using hot metal 255 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:39.333 typesetting on a monotype machine. 256 00:07:39.541 --> 00:07:40.583 I have no idea what it looks like. 257 00:07:41.125 --> 00:07:43.000 It's a method dating by the 19th century, 258 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.041 produced a classic style that he liked. 259 00:07:45.333 --> 00:07:46.500 And when the second edition was 260 00:07:46.500 --> 00:07:48.208 published, they had to typeset everything 261 00:07:48.208 --> 00:07:49.875 again because the monotype technology had 262 00:07:49.875 --> 00:07:51.583 been replaced by photo typesetting. 263 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.500 And he looked at it. 264 00:07:53.708 --> 00:07:55.875 So from from 68 to 77, they switched to a 265 00:07:55.875 --> 00:07:56.708 new typesetting system. 266 00:07:56.708 --> 00:07:57.333 He looked at it and was 267 00:07:57.333 --> 00:07:59.000 like, "I liked it better before." 268 00:07:59.833 --> 00:08:00.666 So he just made his 269 00:08:00.666 --> 00:08:01.916 entire typesetting system. 270 00:08:01.916 --> 00:08:03.166 And then if you're wondering the 271 00:08:03.166 --> 00:08:05.125 difference between TeX and LaTeX, the 272 00:08:05.125 --> 00:08:07.791 'La' part is mostly a set of macros. 273 00:08:08.083 --> 00:08:09.416 It's just like it's really 274 00:08:09.416 --> 00:08:10.916 just the maths behind it. 275 00:08:10.916 --> 00:08:12.708 And then you need to build kind of an 276 00:08:12.708 --> 00:08:14.458 ecosystem, a standard library or 277 00:08:14.458 --> 00:08:16.333 something of things you can use on there. 278 00:08:16.583 --> 00:08:18.666 Yeah, because there's a whole bunch of 279 00:08:18.666 --> 00:08:19.666 plug-ins and things like that. 280 00:08:19.666 --> 00:08:21.000 And this is why it gets used in a bunch 281 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:22.125 of scientific writing. 282 00:08:22.375 --> 00:08:23.666 One, like universities will typically 283 00:08:23.666 --> 00:08:25.625 have like a standard template so that 284 00:08:25.625 --> 00:08:27.416 everyone writing a paper uses the same 285 00:08:27.416 --> 00:08:29.208 template and it gets imported like a 286 00:08:29.208 --> 00:08:30.375 macro or a library or 287 00:08:30.375 --> 00:08:31.041 something like that. 288 00:08:31.541 --> 00:08:33.416 And then same for graphs and tables and 289 00:08:33.416 --> 00:08:35.000 anything else that you put in there. 290 00:08:35.125 --> 00:08:37.875 So it has like a consistent looking voice 291 00:08:37.875 --> 00:08:39.958 is the wrong thing to use for text, but a 292 00:08:39.958 --> 00:08:40.875 consistent looking style. 293 00:08:41.291 --> 00:08:42.833 And, you know, that way, even if you have 294 00:08:42.833 --> 00:08:44.500 just PhD researchers, they end up with 295 00:08:44.500 --> 00:08:46.125 something that looks consistent for the 296 00:08:46.125 --> 00:08:47.625 university and stuff like that. 297 00:08:47.625 --> 00:08:49.625 But like I said, I only did my my 298 00:08:49.625 --> 00:08:52.000 bachelor's, so I missed out on that. 299 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.541 For my bachelor's, we didn't have a 300 00:08:53.541 --> 00:08:54.500 bachelor's thesis, but we 301 00:08:54.500 --> 00:08:55.708 had like a final project. 302 00:08:55.708 --> 00:08:57.375 And I think I just used Google Docs for 303 00:08:57.375 --> 00:08:58.416 that, if I remember correctly. 304 00:08:58.833 --> 00:09:01.041 Serious, serious intent on on that. 305 00:09:01.041 --> 00:09:02.750 But it was a much different audience than 306 00:09:02.791 --> 00:09:04.208 publishing in a research paper or 307 00:09:04.208 --> 00:09:04.833 something like that. 308 00:09:05.083 --> 00:09:05.458 True. 309 00:09:05.750 --> 00:09:06.041 I do. 310 00:09:06.041 --> 00:09:07.875 I do find it interesting that unless I'm 311 00:09:07.875 --> 00:09:09.708 misreading this and if I'm wrong, we will 312 00:09:09.708 --> 00:09:10.750 get emails about it. 313 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:13.291 But I don't think it was out of... it's not 314 00:09:13.291 --> 00:09:14.833 like the free software story. 315 00:09:14.833 --> 00:09:16.000 It's not like, you know, 316 00:09:16.458 --> 00:09:17.125 I want to use a printer. 317 00:09:17.416 --> 00:09:18.833 I couldn't because software was fucky. 318 00:09:18.833 --> 00:09:20.000 So I just started a whole movement. 319 00:09:20.291 --> 00:09:21.875 It's more like there's 320 00:09:21.875 --> 00:09:23.583 nothing that can do this right. 321 00:09:23.791 --> 00:09:24.750 So it's not even about 322 00:09:24.750 --> 00:09:25.791 making it open or whatever. 323 00:09:25.916 --> 00:09:27.791 It's just like I want to make my own 324 00:09:27.791 --> 00:09:29.166 because I know I can do this better. 325 00:09:29.333 --> 00:09:30.333 This is like back in 326 00:09:30.333 --> 00:09:31.500 the Bell Labs days, right? 327 00:09:31.833 --> 00:09:34.916 Like this is when... Knuth wasn't... I don't 328 00:09:34.916 --> 00:09:36.791 remember if Knuth was at Bell Labs, but I 329 00:09:36.791 --> 00:09:38.083 think it predates like the-- 330 00:09:38.083 --> 00:09:39.833 well, LaTeX probably doesn't. 331 00:09:39.833 --> 00:09:40.333 But I don't know. 332 00:09:40.333 --> 00:09:41.916 I'm going to speak on-- off the cuff here. 333 00:09:41.916 --> 00:09:43.375 But I think it's older than that. 334 00:09:43.583 --> 00:09:44.916 But yeah, I do think it was one of those 335 00:09:44.916 --> 00:09:46.333 yakshaves of like, "Oh, well, 336 00:09:46.333 --> 00:09:47.250 there's no software for that. 337 00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:48.791 So I guess I'll just write an entire 338 00:09:48.791 --> 00:09:49.333 typesetting 339 00:09:49.333 --> 00:09:51.500 programming language," as you do. 340 00:09:51.958 --> 00:09:54.916 Yeah, I'm fact-checking you as we go. 341 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.791 And I see mostly-- I 342 00:09:56.791 --> 00:09:58.208 see Stanford University. 343 00:09:58.208 --> 00:09:59.416 I see University of Oslo. 344 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:00.833 I don't think he's part 345 00:10:00.833 --> 00:10:01.916 of the Bell Labs people. 346 00:10:02.708 --> 00:10:04.125 OK, like I said, I'm probably muddling up 347 00:10:04.125 --> 00:10:05.583 my C luminaries again. 348 00:10:06.625 --> 00:10:08.083 Yep, you gotta get mixed up. 349 00:10:08.500 --> 00:10:09.750 But also, if you've heard people talk 350 00:10:09.750 --> 00:10:11.916 about LaTeX, everyone I know who's used 351 00:10:11.916 --> 00:10:14.166 LaTeX also has complaints about LaTeX in 352 00:10:14.166 --> 00:10:15.791 that it is very like macro heavy. 353 00:10:16.375 --> 00:10:18.666 It's an artifact of its time, as far as I 354 00:10:18.666 --> 00:10:19.875 know, in that it's one of those things 355 00:10:19.875 --> 00:10:22.875 that it made sense at the time and it's 356 00:10:22.875 --> 00:10:24.833 just been grown and things added to it. 357 00:10:24.833 --> 00:10:27.250 And macros that were reasonable are less 358 00:10:27.250 --> 00:10:30.666 reasonable when you're a decade away from 359 00:10:30.666 --> 00:10:31.916 the person who wrote it or 360 00:10:31.916 --> 00:10:33.208 people who are in university. 361 00:10:33.416 --> 00:10:35.166 It's like, well, who wrote the macros 362 00:10:35.166 --> 00:10:36.208 that our university uses? 363 00:10:36.583 --> 00:10:39.166 Some third year undergrad student who is 364 00:10:39.166 --> 00:10:41.208 the only person who figured out how LaTeX 365 00:10:41.208 --> 00:10:43.250 worked and could write macros for it. 366 00:10:43.250 --> 00:10:43.875 And now if you ever have 367 00:10:43.875 --> 00:10:45.083 to debug it, it's horrible. 368 00:10:45.375 --> 00:10:48.041 Or, you know, I can't give that many 369 00:10:48.041 --> 00:10:49.458 directed complaints because I've never 370 00:10:49.458 --> 00:10:50.833 used it, so I'm not very informed. 371 00:10:50.958 --> 00:10:53.208 But every single person who I've talked 372 00:10:53.208 --> 00:10:55.666 to who has used LaTeX always has a love 373 00:10:55.666 --> 00:10:57.208 hate relationship with it and that they 374 00:10:57.208 --> 00:10:58.791 love what it's supposed to do. 375 00:10:59.125 --> 00:11:02.125 And then as soon as a table overflows or 376 00:11:02.125 --> 00:11:04.250 you have to debug a macro or you import 377 00:11:04.250 --> 00:11:06.083 two macros that interfere with each other 378 00:11:06.083 --> 00:11:08.250 or whatever, everything goes to hell. 379 00:11:08.791 --> 00:11:10.708 And the actual workflow that a lot of 380 00:11:10.708 --> 00:11:12.291 people require to get it working requires 381 00:11:12.291 --> 00:11:14.708 like, OK, I have to install 37 Perl 382 00:11:14.708 --> 00:11:17.916 packages and two Python packages and 383 00:11:17.916 --> 00:11:19.166 whatever, because I guess however these 384 00:11:19.166 --> 00:11:20.750 macros are written, it's-- there's 385 00:11:20.750 --> 00:11:22.083 just a lot of processing step. 386 00:11:22.291 --> 00:11:23.833 And one, it's a tool that people have 387 00:11:23.833 --> 00:11:25.416 used, but a lot of different people have 388 00:11:25.416 --> 00:11:26.583 used and it's been this 389 00:11:26.583 --> 00:11:28.291 whole like bazaar of ecosystem. 390 00:11:28.791 --> 00:11:29.875 So it's yeah, I don't know. 391 00:11:29.875 --> 00:11:31.000 Like I said, it's it's something that's 392 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:32.333 always struck me as a love hate 393 00:11:32.375 --> 00:11:35.166 relationship that people love the idea of 394 00:11:35.166 --> 00:11:37.666 it and then just paper cuts all day every 395 00:11:37.666 --> 00:11:38.833 day, which is part of the reason why I 396 00:11:38.833 --> 00:11:40.416 never picked it up, because I heard every 397 00:11:40.416 --> 00:11:41.750 time I heard something good about it, I 398 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:43.333 heard just as many complaints about it. 399 00:11:43.333 --> 00:11:43.916 And I went, I guess my 400 00:11:43.916 --> 00:11:45.208 Markdown is not so bad. 401 00:11:45.208 --> 00:11:47.833 Like I can do Markdown render to HTML or 402 00:11:47.833 --> 00:11:49.041 like Markdown render to PDF. 403 00:11:49.333 --> 00:11:50.625 And I can live with that. 404 00:11:50.875 --> 00:11:51.791 Yeah, I definitely have 405 00:11:51.791 --> 00:11:52.916 heard the same complaints. 406 00:11:53.708 --> 00:11:55.208 And it is definitely a part of its time. 407 00:11:55.458 --> 00:11:56.583 There's so many more 408 00:11:56.583 --> 00:11:57.958 fun tidbits around it. 409 00:11:57.958 --> 00:12:00.000 For example, Knuth didn't just invent TeX. 410 00:12:00.250 --> 00:12:01.875 He invented the concept of literate 411 00:12:01.875 --> 00:12:03.541 programming where you essentially write a 412 00:12:03.541 --> 00:12:05.125 document and then you can compile a 413 00:12:05.125 --> 00:12:06.666 document to source code because it 414 00:12:06.666 --> 00:12:08.041 extracts the code that's in there. 415 00:12:08.041 --> 00:12:10.291 So explain what you do and the pros, the 416 00:12:10.291 --> 00:12:12.583 explanation for humans is kind of the 417 00:12:12.583 --> 00:12:14.333 main thing, the main focus. 418 00:12:14.583 --> 00:12:16.916 And then the code is a product of that is 419 00:12:16.916 --> 00:12:18.166 something you can compile. 420 00:12:18.333 --> 00:12:20.041 He originally wrote TeX in a language 421 00:12:20.041 --> 00:12:22.583 called WEB, W-E-B, all capital. 422 00:12:23.125 --> 00:12:23.791 And that produced 423 00:12:23.791 --> 00:12:26.625 programs in DEC PDP-10 Pascal. 424 00:12:27.583 --> 00:12:28.208 Maybe a CDC. 425 00:12:28.791 --> 00:12:31.208 So yes, it was released 47 years ago. 426 00:12:31.208 --> 00:12:32.125 It is it is old and 427 00:12:32.125 --> 00:12:33.833 extremely old in computer years. 428 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:34.916 Yeah, but this is Typst. 429 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:36.666 And so LaTeX is LaTeX. 430 00:12:37.166 --> 00:12:38.583 Like I said, I never learned it, but this 431 00:12:38.583 --> 00:12:39.833 is Typst, which is a 432 00:12:39.833 --> 00:12:41.000 much more modern program. 433 00:12:41.333 --> 00:12:43.583 It's written in Rust, which: always great. 434 00:12:43.791 --> 00:12:44.875 I love using tools that are written in 435 00:12:44.875 --> 00:12:46.458 Rust because it means that I have a 436 00:12:46.458 --> 00:12:48.083 chance in hell at debugging it in case 437 00:12:48.083 --> 00:12:49.833 something goes wrong or just, you know, 438 00:12:50.125 --> 00:12:51.041 supporting people doing that. 439 00:12:51.250 --> 00:12:52.833 And it's actually local for me because it 440 00:12:52.833 --> 00:12:54.833 comes out of TU Berlin, which is one of 441 00:12:54.833 --> 00:12:56.000 the big universities here. 442 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.333 And it started as a side 443 00:12:57.333 --> 00:12:59.833 project from a student in 2019, 444 00:13:00.916 --> 00:13:01.958 maybe one or two people. 445 00:13:01.958 --> 00:13:03.500 I know there are two main developers who 446 00:13:03.500 --> 00:13:04.333 are working on it now. 447 00:13:04.833 --> 00:13:07.000 And since then, they've been making it 448 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:08.791 basically their full time thing of 449 00:13:08.791 --> 00:13:11.041 building the command line version of it. 450 00:13:11.041 --> 00:13:12.250 Well, I'll get into the different forms 451 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:14.125 that it comes in, but making the language 452 00:13:14.166 --> 00:13:14.916 itself and all the 453 00:13:14.916 --> 00:13:16.458 tooling that relates to it. 454 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:18.416 And so it's something that I've had on my 455 00:13:18.416 --> 00:13:20.166 radar because in Rust, everyone talks 456 00:13:20.166 --> 00:13:20.958 about like, "Hey, I just 457 00:13:20.958 --> 00:13:22.125 built this new thing in Rust." 458 00:13:22.875 --> 00:13:24.958 So I've seen it on the like, you know, 459 00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:26.250 various announcements. 460 00:13:26.250 --> 00:13:28.875 And I think a year or two ago, I kind of 461 00:13:28.875 --> 00:13:30.000 looked at bringing it up because I was 462 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.375 like, well, maybe I do want to do more 463 00:13:31.375 --> 00:13:32.416 formal reports for 464 00:13:32.416 --> 00:13:33.750 customers and stuff like that. 465 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:35.041 So maybe I'll pick it up. 466 00:13:35.041 --> 00:13:36.083 But I didn't have anything at 467 00:13:36.083 --> 00:13:37.333 hand, which means I dropped it. 468 00:13:37.541 --> 00:13:39.458 And then I think like six months ago, I 469 00:13:39.458 --> 00:13:41.875 tried again because I found... what I 470 00:13:41.875 --> 00:13:42.666 actually found was the 471 00:13:42.666 --> 00:13:45.291 NASA design and style manual. 472 00:13:45.458 --> 00:13:47.250 So someone just printed a PDF of it. 473 00:13:47.250 --> 00:13:49.125 And it's like the whole guide of how you 474 00:13:49.125 --> 00:13:51.750 do typesetting and logos and fonts and 475 00:13:51.791 --> 00:13:53.416 everything like that for NASA. 476 00:13:53.916 --> 00:13:54.916 And it was a really 477 00:13:54.916 --> 00:13:56.208 interesting style guide. 478 00:13:56.208 --> 00:13:58.166 And it was I was like, "Oh, I want to make 479 00:13:58.166 --> 00:13:59.958 pretty technical documents like that!" 480 00:13:59.958 --> 00:14:00.833 Like there was a very like 481 00:14:00.833 --> 00:14:03.333 cool style and inspiring style. 482 00:14:03.333 --> 00:14:05.791 So I started picking up Typst about six 483 00:14:05.791 --> 00:14:07.333 months ago because I was like, OK, if I 484 00:14:07.333 --> 00:14:09.458 want pretty like laid out documents like 485 00:14:09.458 --> 00:14:11.666 that with images set and, you know, all 486 00:14:11.666 --> 00:14:12.791 that, then I'm going to need something 487 00:14:12.791 --> 00:14:14.291 more powerful than Word 488 00:14:14.291 --> 00:14:15.708 or Google Docs or whatever. 489 00:14:16.041 --> 00:14:17.208 And so I sort of picked it up, did the 490 00:14:17.208 --> 00:14:19.458 tutorials, went really fine, but then I 491 00:14:19.458 --> 00:14:20.458 didn't use it. Went back on 492 00:14:20.458 --> 00:14:22.041 vacation and didn't touch it. 493 00:14:22.041 --> 00:14:23.750 But I recently got back into it because 494 00:14:23.750 --> 00:14:25.625 my company, OneVariable is going to 495 00:14:25.625 --> 00:14:27.458 Embedded World and we need either a big 496 00:14:27.458 --> 00:14:28.583 poster or like one of 497 00:14:28.583 --> 00:14:29.958 those roll up banners for it. 498 00:14:29.958 --> 00:14:31.500 And I was like: well, how do you design a 499 00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:33.833 two by one meter banner? 500 00:14:33.833 --> 00:14:35.541 Because I don't know how I would approach 501 00:14:35.541 --> 00:14:37.000 that in any of the tools that I know how 502 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.250 to use like Google Docs. 503 00:14:38.250 --> 00:14:39.375 I guess I could make a really big 504 00:14:39.375 --> 00:14:41.208 PowerPoint slide for it or something? 505 00:14:41.291 --> 00:14:41.833 I don't know. 506 00:14:41.833 --> 00:14:43.583 But it seemed like a perfect opportunity 507 00:14:43.583 --> 00:14:45.250 because we didn't need that much text and 508 00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:46.416 style because it's something you want to 509 00:14:46.416 --> 00:14:48.333 be able to see from like across the hall. 510 00:14:48.916 --> 00:14:50.125 And I was just like, I wonder if Typst 511 00:14:50.125 --> 00:14:51.250 can just handle a two 512 00:14:51.250 --> 00:14:52.625 meter by one meter document. 513 00:14:52.958 --> 00:14:54.416 Absolutely no problem with it. 514 00:14:54.416 --> 00:14:56.708 I opened it up, did like Hello World and 515 00:14:56.708 --> 00:14:58.500 it rendered a giant PDF that looked 516 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.291 perfectly fine at 300 PPI. 517 00:15:00.708 --> 00:15:01.791 And I was like, "Oh. Cool." 518 00:15:02.041 --> 00:15:03.833 And then I think that was on a Friday. 519 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.416 And I just sat the rest of the evening 520 00:15:05.416 --> 00:15:07.666 and was like, "OK, how do I make a pretty 521 00:15:07.666 --> 00:15:08.625 gradient background?" and 522 00:15:08.625 --> 00:15:09.541 just messed around with it. 523 00:15:09.583 --> 00:15:10.625 Because it has this really nice. 524 00:15:10.791 --> 00:15:12.000 What you see is what you get. 525 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:12.375 Web editor. 526 00:15:12.875 --> 00:15:14.083 It's sort of like if you've ever seen any 527 00:15:14.083 --> 00:15:16.208 of those-- like HackMD is one of those 528 00:15:16.208 --> 00:15:17.625 websites where you've got Markdown in one 529 00:15:17.625 --> 00:15:19.333 pane and you've got like pretty rendered 530 00:15:19.333 --> 00:15:20.500 version on the right side. 531 00:15:20.833 --> 00:15:21.833 Typst has the same thing. 532 00:15:21.833 --> 00:15:23.166 So you've got all your code on the left. 533 00:15:23.708 --> 00:15:25.291 It's even got like syntax highlighting 534 00:15:25.291 --> 00:15:26.916 and it'll do autocomplete 535 00:15:26.916 --> 00:15:29.250 sort of like a LSP sort of thing. 536 00:15:29.250 --> 00:15:31.125 So like it'll autocomplete things and you 537 00:15:31.125 --> 00:15:32.791 can hover over things and see it. 538 00:15:32.791 --> 00:15:34.791 And it caught me in exactly the right way 539 00:15:34.791 --> 00:15:36.208 where I just spent like the next six 540 00:15:36.208 --> 00:15:38.208 hours like, "OK, how do I make a title? 541 00:15:38.708 --> 00:15:39.000 Cool. 542 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:39.958 How do I make a gradient? 543 00:15:40.291 --> 00:15:41.208 How do I make a shape 544 00:15:41.208 --> 00:15:42.208 on top of a gradient? 545 00:15:42.208 --> 00:15:44.291 How do I do stacking shapes?" and just it 546 00:15:44.291 --> 00:15:46.166 was fun to just play around with. 547 00:15:46.166 --> 00:15:48.041 So, I mean, it took having a very 548 00:15:48.041 --> 00:15:49.583 specific task to do. 549 00:15:49.583 --> 00:15:52.125 It was neat because I just had the editor 550 00:15:52.125 --> 00:15:53.708 open in one window and the docs open 551 00:15:53.708 --> 00:15:54.916 another and they have 552 00:15:54.916 --> 00:15:56.208 really good searchable docs. 553 00:15:56.458 --> 00:15:59.083 So I'm like: gradients. Type 'gradient' and 554 00:15:59.083 --> 00:15:59.666 it's like "function 555 00:15:59.666 --> 00:16:00.916 gradient: looks like this. 556 00:16:01.250 --> 00:16:02.125 Call it with these methods." 557 00:16:02.125 --> 00:16:03.041 And I was like, "Oh, cool!" 558 00:16:03.375 --> 00:16:04.083 And you just paste that 559 00:16:04.083 --> 00:16:05.000 in and you iterate on it. 560 00:16:05.041 --> 00:16:07.708 So I have some very like some of the 561 00:16:07.708 --> 00:16:09.625 intermediate documents I made. 562 00:16:09.625 --> 00:16:11.166 I was like, OK, I am approaching the 563 00:16:11.166 --> 00:16:12.083 level of competency. 564 00:16:12.291 --> 00:16:14.500 So my documents now look like PowerPoint 565 00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:17.125 in the late 90s because it had like, you 566 00:16:17.125 --> 00:16:19.791 know: big text, rectangle behind it, 567 00:16:19.791 --> 00:16:21.416 gradient as a background. 568 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.791 But over the course of like six hours, I 569 00:16:23.791 --> 00:16:25.375 went from like black text on white 570 00:16:25.375 --> 00:16:27.458 background to PowerPoint to something 571 00:16:27.458 --> 00:16:29.500 that I was like, OK, if we printed this, 572 00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:30.958 I wouldn't be ashamed to have it at my 573 00:16:30.958 --> 00:16:32.875 booth in like six hours, which was 574 00:16:32.875 --> 00:16:34.000 really, really neat. 575 00:16:34.041 --> 00:16:36.250 So I wonder because you're talking about 576 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:38.083 gradients and I'm trying to think of the 577 00:16:38.083 --> 00:16:40.333 whole pipeline because rendering to a 578 00:16:40.333 --> 00:16:41.750 bitmap so that you can see 579 00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:43.000 it in your browser is easy. 580 00:16:43.291 --> 00:16:44.500 I'm wondering what's what's the thing 581 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:45.500 they standardize on? 582 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:47.000 What's the lowest common denominator? 583 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:47.833 And I think it has to 584 00:16:47.833 --> 00:16:48.958 be PostScript, right? 585 00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:50.833 Because that's what you send to printers. 586 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:52.041 I have no idea. 587 00:16:52.291 --> 00:16:53.583 And by printers, I mean both the physical 588 00:16:53.583 --> 00:16:55.333 device and the people whose job it is to 589 00:16:55.333 --> 00:16:56.208 print things because 590 00:16:56.208 --> 00:16:57.625 well, I don't know either. 591 00:16:57.625 --> 00:16:59.708 But I have an interesting tidbit that 592 00:16:59.708 --> 00:17:02.833 TeX was released initially in 1978. 593 00:17:02.958 --> 00:17:05.000 So 47 years ago, but PostScript was 594 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:06.541 released in 1982, which 595 00:17:06.541 --> 00:17:07.875 was only 43 years ago. 596 00:17:08.208 --> 00:17:09.791 So that means that for four 597 00:17:09.791 --> 00:17:11.208 years, TeX was the thing. 598 00:17:11.208 --> 00:17:12.208 But PostScript wasn't. 599 00:17:12.208 --> 00:17:13.750 And how PostScript is not even the thing 600 00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:14.666 people actually use. 601 00:17:14.666 --> 00:17:16.208 They use PDF, which has PostScript 602 00:17:16.208 --> 00:17:17.500 inside, if I understand correctly. 603 00:17:18.208 --> 00:17:19.625 So it's it's fun to see. 604 00:17:19.625 --> 00:17:20.166 PostScript is great. 605 00:17:20.375 --> 00:17:21.041 PostScript is a Forth. 606 00:17:21.416 --> 00:17:22.958 Well, it's not exactly a Forth, but it's 607 00:17:22.958 --> 00:17:24.416 basically a Forth, which is great. 608 00:17:24.416 --> 00:17:25.541 And that was back in the day when 609 00:17:25.541 --> 00:17:28.666 printers were big, expensive machines and 610 00:17:28.666 --> 00:17:30.750 user terminals were dumb machines. 611 00:17:31.333 --> 00:17:33.041 So you would have basically a big, beefy 612 00:17:33.041 --> 00:17:34.916 computer that was running the printer. 613 00:17:35.541 --> 00:17:36.958 So instead of sending it rasterized 614 00:17:36.958 --> 00:17:38.708 images because your network wasn't fast 615 00:17:38.708 --> 00:17:40.625 enough and your computer wasn't fast 616 00:17:40.625 --> 00:17:42.000 enough to rasterize the image. 617 00:17:42.291 --> 00:17:43.750 So rasterizing is like turning it from 618 00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:45.541 vectors into like a 619 00:17:45.541 --> 00:17:46.833 bitmap like we think of. 620 00:17:47.291 --> 00:17:48.958 So you would just send PostScript, which 621 00:17:48.958 --> 00:17:51.208 is a program over the network to the 622 00:17:51.208 --> 00:17:53.666 computer that would then render in the 623 00:17:53.666 --> 00:17:55.708 giant RAM buffers that your printer had 624 00:17:55.708 --> 00:17:56.791 because the printer was the 625 00:17:56.791 --> 00:17:58.000 expensive piece of equipment. 626 00:17:58.416 --> 00:17:59.958 Wait, do people do code 627 00:17:59.958 --> 00:18:01.125 golfing with PostScript? 628 00:18:01.458 --> 00:18:03.458 Like try to make a document in as few 629 00:18:03.458 --> 00:18:04.458 bytes as possible because you 630 00:18:04.458 --> 00:18:05.583 can write PostScript by hand. 631 00:18:05.583 --> 00:18:06.375 Got to be doing code 632 00:18:06.375 --> 00:18:08.083 golfing with with PostScript. 633 00:18:08.083 --> 00:18:09.041 I'm sure that's a thing. 634 00:18:10.083 --> 00:18:10.291 Yeah. 635 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:11.208 So I don't know. 636 00:18:11.458 --> 00:18:13.208 I did look into a little bit how it works 637 00:18:13.208 --> 00:18:14.458 because it isn't just a Rust crate. 638 00:18:14.791 --> 00:18:16.083 It renders into sort of 639 00:18:16.083 --> 00:18:17.333 it's like any other compiler. 640 00:18:17.541 --> 00:18:18.625 It has like a million 641 00:18:18.625 --> 00:18:19.791 intermediate formats. 642 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.791 And so it renders 643 00:18:20.791 --> 00:18:22.083 into some document model. 644 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:24.916 It does the rendering and then you give 645 00:18:24.916 --> 00:18:26.416 it to the next step, which is either 646 00:18:26.416 --> 00:18:28.416 render to PDF or render 647 00:18:28.416 --> 00:18:30.625 to PNG or render to bitmap. 648 00:18:30.958 --> 00:18:33.541 And like I ended up using one-- spoiler for 649 00:18:33.541 --> 00:18:36.000 later-- that renders to like tiny-skia. 650 00:18:36.333 --> 00:18:38.208 So it creates essentially just like a 651 00:18:38.208 --> 00:18:39.333 bitmap image where it 652 00:18:39.333 --> 00:18:40.333 gives me an array of pixels. 653 00:18:40.666 --> 00:18:44.250 So I'm sure it has some plug in for like, 654 00:18:44.250 --> 00:18:45.500 OK, we get to the intermediate 655 00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:48.541 representation, the IR with the document 656 00:18:48.541 --> 00:18:50.666 model and like things that have been 657 00:18:50.666 --> 00:18:52.000 applied and things that haven't. 658 00:18:52.333 --> 00:18:53.916 And then if you're going to PDF, you 659 00:18:53.916 --> 00:18:56.208 might apply those to create the PDF in 660 00:18:56.208 --> 00:18:58.375 one way or do a PNG or a bitmap. 661 00:18:58.375 --> 00:18:59.333 You might do it a different way. 662 00:18:59.333 --> 00:19:00.916 I haven't looked really under the hood, 663 00:19:00.916 --> 00:19:01.916 just enough to plug it 664 00:19:01.916 --> 00:19:02.833 into some other stuff. 665 00:19:03.125 --> 00:19:05.041 But yeah, the web editor is super nice. 666 00:19:05.041 --> 00:19:06.291 Like I said, if you're looking at the 667 00:19:06.291 --> 00:19:08.375 slides now, I have an actual picture. 668 00:19:08.625 --> 00:19:09.625 So Amanda probably has had 669 00:19:09.625 --> 00:19:10.666 this picture on the slides. 670 00:19:10.958 --> 00:19:12.791 If you're watching the video for the last 671 00:19:12.791 --> 00:19:14.166 five minutes, we've been talking instead 672 00:19:14.166 --> 00:19:15.541 of just the slide that 673 00:19:15.541 --> 00:19:17.250 says it has a nice GUI editor. 674 00:19:17.458 --> 00:19:19.416 But you can see exactly the slides we're 675 00:19:19.416 --> 00:19:20.750 looking at right now, basically. 676 00:19:21.208 --> 00:19:22.750 And you can see the text over on the left 677 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:24.000 and a preview of the 678 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.958 previous slide on the right. 679 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.000 And it looks really nice. 680 00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:28.000 It's about what you would 681 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.791 expect from a visual editor. 682 00:19:30.166 --> 00:19:32.416 But because it's still usable in all the 683 00:19:32.416 --> 00:19:34.958 places that LaTeX was, it also comes as a 684 00:19:35.083 --> 00:19:36.166 command line interface tool. 685 00:19:36.458 --> 00:19:38.333 So you just can type 'typst compile 686 00:19:38.333 --> 00:19:41.375 input source file output PDF' or 'output 687 00:19:41.375 --> 00:19:43.833 PNG,' and it'll just spit that out. 688 00:19:44.083 --> 00:19:45.583 And because it's in Rust, it runs 689 00:19:45.583 --> 00:19:48.291 stupidly fast and it's fairly instant. 690 00:19:48.291 --> 00:19:49.208 So I've done things like 691 00:19:49.208 --> 00:19:51.083 just run watch exec on this. 692 00:19:51.083 --> 00:19:52.500 So every time I hit save on the file, it 693 00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.125 immediately regenerates the PDF, which 694 00:19:54.125 --> 00:19:55.208 you can do with LaTeX as well. 695 00:19:55.541 --> 00:19:57.708 But it just is nice and snappy, like I 696 00:19:57.708 --> 00:19:59.833 said, because it's in Rust and I didn't 697 00:19:59.833 --> 00:20:00.416 mention it: the 698 00:20:00.416 --> 00:20:01.333 entire thing's open source. 699 00:20:01.541 --> 00:20:02.625 I don't think their web 700 00:20:02.625 --> 00:20:03.875 GUI tool is open source. 701 00:20:03.875 --> 00:20:04.500 I'm not sure. 702 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.250 But like the core engine in the language 703 00:20:06.250 --> 00:20:09.583 itself are open source and now fairly 704 00:20:09.583 --> 00:20:12.166 recently published as a crate, which 705 00:20:12.166 --> 00:20:13.166 means you can just 706 00:20:13.166 --> 00:20:14.416 add it to your project. 707 00:20:14.958 --> 00:20:16.416 And I'll show you what I did with this, 708 00:20:16.416 --> 00:20:18.625 but it it works pretty simply as well. 709 00:20:18.625 --> 00:20:19.625 Like you give it the text. 710 00:20:19.916 --> 00:20:21.000 It has this concept of a 711 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.333 world that you need to give it. 712 00:20:22.375 --> 00:20:24.208 And that's how you handle like loading 713 00:20:24.208 --> 00:20:26.041 plugins and fonts and things like that. 714 00:20:26.041 --> 00:20:27.375 So you can make a really minimal one that 715 00:20:27.375 --> 00:20:29.791 has like the one font you need and then 716 00:20:29.791 --> 00:20:30.666 you just do compile. 717 00:20:31.125 --> 00:20:32.958 So I'm looking into their their pricing 718 00:20:32.958 --> 00:20:34.291 to see what the model is because it's 719 00:20:34.291 --> 00:20:36.083 always a question to ask. 720 00:20:36.083 --> 00:20:37.333 You find a tool, it's cool. 721 00:20:37.875 --> 00:20:39.291 The source is available, but especially 722 00:20:39.291 --> 00:20:42.291 now in 2025, you know, in the in the wake 723 00:20:42.291 --> 00:20:43.750 of all the business 724 00:20:43.750 --> 00:20:45.625 source available license. 725 00:20:46.166 --> 00:20:48.291 The BSL, I forget exactly the name, but 726 00:20:48.291 --> 00:20:49.333 there's a lot of software. 727 00:20:49.416 --> 00:20:51.291 The source is there, but it's not 728 00:20:51.291 --> 00:20:53.416 necessarily open source in the sense that 729 00:20:53.416 --> 00:20:55.958 you can't change it, you can't recompile, 730 00:20:55.958 --> 00:20:57.208 you can't distribute the changes. 731 00:20:57.666 --> 00:20:59.958 And also just you should be interested in 732 00:20:59.958 --> 00:21:01.125 the in the future of 733 00:21:01.125 --> 00:21:02.083 the software you use. 734 00:21:02.083 --> 00:21:03.291 And by you, I don't mean you, James, 735 00:21:03.291 --> 00:21:04.083 specifically, I mean 736 00:21:04.083 --> 00:21:05.166 everyone listening to this. 737 00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:05.833 Anyone using a tool. 738 00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:06.458 Exactly. 739 00:21:06.833 --> 00:21:08.708 So I think they're going for an open core 740 00:21:08.708 --> 00:21:10.833 model where the whole technology, because 741 00:21:10.833 --> 00:21:12.166 you have to reassure people, people are 742 00:21:12.166 --> 00:21:13.291 going to write a lot 743 00:21:13.291 --> 00:21:14.333 of documents with this. 744 00:21:14.666 --> 00:21:16.375 So they have to know that even the 745 00:21:16.375 --> 00:21:17.875 company goes out of business, they still 746 00:21:17.875 --> 00:21:19.875 can do something with 747 00:21:19.875 --> 00:21:21.375 all that Typst source code. 748 00:21:21.708 --> 00:21:23.125 So that I think that's why it's open 749 00:21:23.125 --> 00:21:24.416 source and also because then 750 00:21:24.416 --> 00:21:25.375 they get free contributions. 751 00:21:26.208 --> 00:21:27.625 But then I think what they're trying to 752 00:21:27.625 --> 00:21:29.875 monetize is the whole collaborative 753 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.208 editing experience on the 754 00:21:31.208 --> 00:21:32.458 web thing and cloud storage. 755 00:21:32.458 --> 00:21:33.250 And so cloud storage 756 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:34.875 itself is not enough. 757 00:21:35.666 --> 00:21:36.666 It's hard to make a 758 00:21:36.666 --> 00:21:38.208 living just selling that. 759 00:21:38.416 --> 00:21:40.500 It's Google Docs level of collaboration 760 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:42.250 where many people can have the same 761 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:43.333 document open at the same time. 762 00:21:43.333 --> 00:21:44.083 You see people editing. 763 00:21:44.083 --> 00:21:45.416 They're using CRDT under 764 00:21:45.416 --> 00:21:46.541 the the hood to do that. 765 00:21:46.583 --> 00:21:48.041 So I think that's what they're going for. 766 00:21:48.375 --> 00:21:50.166 And I have no idea if they're profitable 767 00:21:50.166 --> 00:21:52.416 or not, but we'll ask 768 00:21:52.416 --> 00:21:53.625 them and get back to you. 769 00:21:53.625 --> 00:21:54.250 No, we won't. 770 00:21:54.250 --> 00:21:54.500 Yeah. 771 00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:55.958 I know they've also gotten some funding 772 00:21:55.958 --> 00:21:58.750 from like some European grants and stuff. 773 00:21:58.750 --> 00:21:59.791 And I think from their university, 774 00:22:00.041 --> 00:22:00.666 they're going through this 775 00:22:00.666 --> 00:22:01.791 process are always difficult. 776 00:22:01.791 --> 00:22:02.416 So I'm sure they're 777 00:22:02.416 --> 00:22:04.250 they're aiming to be profitable. 778 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:05.375 I haven't talked to them. 779 00:22:05.375 --> 00:22:06.875 But yeah, it does make sense to me that 780 00:22:06.875 --> 00:22:08.416 like you have sort of this core engine 781 00:22:08.416 --> 00:22:10.333 that the really like tech focused people 782 00:22:10.333 --> 00:22:11.833 can just download the open source version 783 00:22:11.833 --> 00:22:12.791 and install it and run it. 784 00:22:13.041 --> 00:22:14.333 But if you want it to be more applicable 785 00:22:14.333 --> 00:22:16.541 to more industries, having a really nice 786 00:22:16.541 --> 00:22:17.958 collaborative editor because you want 787 00:22:17.958 --> 00:22:20.833 this to be useful for teams that don't 788 00:22:20.833 --> 00:22:21.666 know source control. 789 00:22:21.958 --> 00:22:23.250 You want to be able to say, "I have 10 790 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:24.750 accounts for the people in my newsroom 791 00:22:24.750 --> 00:22:26.291 and we can collaborate on this and we can 792 00:22:26.291 --> 00:22:28.708 kick out a newspaper every day or every 793 00:22:28.708 --> 00:22:29.875 week," or something like that. 794 00:22:29.875 --> 00:22:31.833 So I definitely see that as being the 795 00:22:31.833 --> 00:22:33.583 like you want people to go and run with 796 00:22:33.583 --> 00:22:36.000 it in open source, but then monetize the 797 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.041 ones where it's like, hey, if you're a 798 00:22:37.041 --> 00:22:38.583 business using this, if I've used this 799 00:22:38.583 --> 00:22:39.958 for more than a week, we'll probably 800 00:22:39.958 --> 00:22:40.750 start looking to that 801 00:22:40.750 --> 00:22:41.833 because they also accept sponsors. 802 00:22:42.166 --> 00:22:43.375 So I know they have a GitHub Sponsors. 803 00:22:43.791 --> 00:22:45.875 So if that's something that becomes a 804 00:22:45.875 --> 00:22:47.833 serious part of my workflow more than 805 00:22:47.833 --> 00:22:50.333 this slide deck and a couple of the other 806 00:22:50.333 --> 00:22:51.541 things that I'm going to show off, then 807 00:22:51.541 --> 00:22:52.833 chances are we'll probably-- 808 00:22:52.833 --> 00:22:54.958 So this slide deck is made with Typst. 809 00:22:54.958 --> 00:22:55.416 Yep. 810 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:56.458 But the other ones were not. 811 00:22:56.458 --> 00:22:56.916 No. 812 00:22:56.916 --> 00:22:57.541 Just this one. 813 00:22:57.541 --> 00:22:59.333 The history of my slides: I was using 814 00:22:59.333 --> 00:23:00.750 Google Docs for a while. 815 00:23:00.916 --> 00:23:02.500 And then after some of your presentations 816 00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:05.166 where you showed Keynote handling some 817 00:23:05.166 --> 00:23:07.125 stuff better, I started using Keynote and 818 00:23:07.166 --> 00:23:08.833 I went, "Well, this is kind of nice." And then... 819 00:23:08.833 --> 00:23:09.583 And then I 820 00:23:09.583 --> 00:23:10.666 switched back to Google Docs. 821 00:23:10.666 --> 00:23:11.958 You switched back to Google Docs, and now-- 822 00:23:11.958 --> 00:23:13.666 I'm a real influencer, I'm 823 00:23:13.666 --> 00:23:15.458 like, "Everyone's doing this new thing." 824 00:23:15.458 --> 00:23:16.250 And then I don't use it. 825 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:17.875 And then now I'm switching over to Typst. 826 00:23:17.875 --> 00:23:18.375 So we'll see. 827 00:23:18.375 --> 00:23:19.833 I don't know if it's going to stick, but 828 00:23:19.833 --> 00:23:22.166 I aim to make it fairly similar. 829 00:23:22.166 --> 00:23:23.791 You probably can tell some difference 830 00:23:23.791 --> 00:23:25.000 between the two of them, but 831 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.375 I like the way it looks. 832 00:23:26.375 --> 00:23:27.958 I was just eyeballing the font sizes and 833 00:23:27.958 --> 00:23:29.541 stuff, but the vibes are the same. 834 00:23:29.541 --> 00:23:30.916 I might follow you on this one. 835 00:23:30.916 --> 00:23:31.458 We'll see. 836 00:23:31.458 --> 00:23:31.708 Nice. 837 00:23:32.291 --> 00:23:33.833 So what does the extra source code look 838 00:23:33.833 --> 00:23:35.875 like, especially for people who haven't 839 00:23:35.875 --> 00:23:37.583 like myself, haven't done 840 00:23:37.583 --> 00:23:39.083 programming in LaTeX or whatever. 841 00:23:39.083 --> 00:23:40.583 So I won't be able to contrast this, but... 842 00:23:40.583 --> 00:23:43.250 This is all of the source code necessary 843 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:44.875 to render up to the first 844 00:23:44.875 --> 00:23:46.458 slide of this presentation. 845 00:23:46.916 --> 00:23:48.416 So a couple of things are going on. 846 00:23:48.791 --> 00:23:50.541 Function calls typically happen with a 847 00:23:50.541 --> 00:23:53.375 pound sign or a hashtag and then the name 848 00:23:53.375 --> 00:23:55.333 of a function, but you can also set 849 00:23:55.333 --> 00:23:57.333 essentially like the default values to 850 00:23:57.333 --> 00:24:00.166 all of these by doing hash set and then 851 00:24:00.166 --> 00:24:01.541 the name of the function. 852 00:24:02.083 --> 00:24:05.041 So I type hash set page and then I fill 853 00:24:05.041 --> 00:24:06.958 in a ton of parameters like the width of 854 00:24:06.958 --> 00:24:08.875 the page, the background fill, which is 855 00:24:08.875 --> 00:24:09.791 black, the margin 856 00:24:09.791 --> 00:24:10.833 that I want on the page. 857 00:24:11.458 --> 00:24:13.583 And then I can set the header here. 858 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.000 And so I can actually put a chunk of code 859 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:17.958 in here that is going to be rendered as 860 00:24:17.958 --> 00:24:19.291 the header on all of my pages. 861 00:24:19.833 --> 00:24:21.375 The other main like syntax thing that 862 00:24:21.375 --> 00:24:23.458 you'll see here is when you see square 863 00:24:23.458 --> 00:24:24.958 brackets, that's saying 864 00:24:24.958 --> 00:24:27.708 here's a chunk of text, basically. 865 00:24:28.083 --> 00:24:28.791 It's like almost like a 866 00:24:28.791 --> 00:24:30.291 closure almost for text. 867 00:24:30.708 --> 00:24:32.583 So it's saying like the header parameter 868 00:24:32.583 --> 00:24:33.791 here would take some 869 00:24:33.791 --> 00:24:35.333 text or some content here. 870 00:24:35.833 --> 00:24:37.458 And if I want to have a multi-line thing 871 00:24:37.458 --> 00:24:39.125 where maybe I call other functions and 872 00:24:39.125 --> 00:24:41.333 set some stuff, I put those inside of 873 00:24:41.333 --> 00:24:44.166 square brackets, which will kind of 874 00:24:44.166 --> 00:24:46.250 encapsulate the thing that I'm running. 875 00:24:46.250 --> 00:24:46.791 So I can set 876 00:24:46.791 --> 00:24:48.333 alignment, I make a rectangle. 877 00:24:48.833 --> 00:24:50.416 And then in the rectangle, you can see 878 00:24:50.416 --> 00:24:51.583 one more piece of syntax. 879 00:24:52.375 --> 00:24:53.458 Most functions take 880 00:24:53.458 --> 00:24:55.625 content as their last argument. 881 00:24:56.166 --> 00:24:58.583 And you can either put it inside the 882 00:24:58.583 --> 00:25:00.708 parentheses of the function call, or you 883 00:25:00.708 --> 00:25:02.333 can put it as a square bracket 884 00:25:02.333 --> 00:25:04.625 immediately after the function call. 885 00:25:04.625 --> 00:25:06.583 And it becomes essentially the last parameter of that 886 00:25:06.583 --> 00:25:08.625 That reminds me of Ruby blocks. 887 00:25:09.041 --> 00:25:10.041 Have you have you done Ruby? 888 00:25:10.291 --> 00:25:11.791 Do you have any Ruby experience? 889 00:25:11.791 --> 00:25:12.333 No, I haven't. 890 00:25:12.333 --> 00:25:13.875 They have this weird thing that I've 891 00:25:13.875 --> 00:25:15.250 always hated, actually. 892 00:25:15.583 --> 00:25:16.458 I like when languages 893 00:25:16.458 --> 00:25:17.625 explicitly take closure. 894 00:25:17.833 --> 00:25:19.416 So I like Rust, I like some others. 895 00:25:19.791 --> 00:25:20.750 I don't know what Python does. 896 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.583 But for Ruby, you do... I forget the exact 897 00:25:23.583 --> 00:25:25.375 syntax, but you can 898 00:25:25.375 --> 00:25:26.875 pass a block to a function. 899 00:25:27.125 --> 00:25:28.458 And it's not an argument. 900 00:25:28.458 --> 00:25:29.666 It's something else. 901 00:25:29.666 --> 00:25:30.833 And it has a weird syntax. 902 00:25:31.250 --> 00:25:32.916 And sure, it looks it feels nice to 903 00:25:32.916 --> 00:25:34.458 write, but it's-- I don't know. 904 00:25:34.791 --> 00:25:36.083 And this feels like the same thing. You 905 00:25:36.083 --> 00:25:37.666 can either-- but you can have it 906 00:25:37.666 --> 00:25:38.833 both ways here, because you can either 907 00:25:38.833 --> 00:25:41.500 pass it as an argument or use that kind 908 00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:43.250 of square bracket block syntax, right? 909 00:25:43.458 --> 00:25:45.500 Yeah, so if I-- you can also like save 910 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:47.333 content off in a variable name. 911 00:25:47.333 --> 00:25:49.333 So if I was doing that, I might just pass 912 00:25:49.333 --> 00:25:50.875 it as the last argument to rectangle. 913 00:25:51.291 --> 00:25:53.000 Since I'm writing it in line, I'll 914 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.125 probably put it after, and this is just 915 00:25:55.125 --> 00:25:57.208 saying so like rectangle when you give it 916 00:25:57.208 --> 00:25:58.333 content, it puts that 917 00:25:58.333 --> 00:25:59.875 content inside the rectangle. 918 00:26:00.333 --> 00:26:01.791 So this content that I'm putting there, 919 00:26:01.791 --> 00:26:03.458 I'm putting in a stack, which is 920 00:26:03.458 --> 00:26:04.375 basically like three 921 00:26:04.375 --> 00:26:05.708 things right next to each other. 922 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.208 And it's the direction is left to right. 923 00:26:08.625 --> 00:26:10.166 So you could have TTB, which is top to 924 00:26:10.166 --> 00:26:14.500 bottom or LTR or RTL or BTT, I guess, but 925 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:16.375 I'm just saying, okay, I need the text, 926 00:26:16.958 --> 00:26:19.166 which is 24 point font that says "Self- 927 00:26:19.166 --> 00:26:21.791 Directed Research," a small rectangle, 928 00:26:21.791 --> 00:26:23.291 which just gives me some spacing between 929 00:26:23.291 --> 00:26:26.458 the text and the image, and then the 930 00:26:26.458 --> 00:26:28.583 image, and I'm telling it to scale that 931 00:26:28.583 --> 00:26:30.166 to the height, which is the 932 00:26:30.166 --> 00:26:31.500 height of the header 100%. 933 00:26:31.791 --> 00:26:33.416 So I just say, Okay, these are the three 934 00:26:33.416 --> 00:26:34.333 things that go in there. 935 00:26:34.666 --> 00:26:35.541 It's aligned right. 936 00:26:35.833 --> 00:26:36.416 And then these three 937 00:26:36.416 --> 00:26:37.416 things in this order. 938 00:26:37.750 --> 00:26:39.000 So can I ask a question? 939 00:26:39.375 --> 00:26:39.791 Sure. 940 00:26:39.958 --> 00:26:40.583 Everything makes 941 00:26:40.583 --> 00:26:41.791 sense to me in this code. 942 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:44.000 But if you're listening to this podcast, 943 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.875 you should be looking at this podcast, go 944 00:26:45.875 --> 00:26:47.166 on YouTube or the website to get the 945 00:26:47.166 --> 00:26:48.833 slides because it's really hard to just 946 00:26:48.833 --> 00:26:50.500 describe with sounds. 947 00:26:50.875 --> 00:26:51.791 But I'm looking at the 948 00:26:51.791 --> 00:26:52.916 slide that this produces. 949 00:26:52.916 --> 00:26:55.208 And I don't understand height 80% on the 950 00:26:55.208 --> 00:26:56.833 rectangle because you're making a header 951 00:26:56.833 --> 00:26:58.041 the width is 100%. 952 00:26:58.291 --> 00:27:00.375 I understand that... 80% of what 953 00:27:00.375 --> 00:27:01.416 because it's not-- 954 00:27:01.416 --> 00:27:03.416 Yeah, it's 80% of the parent context. 955 00:27:03.750 --> 00:27:06.208 So of the height of the header, the 956 00:27:06.208 --> 00:27:08.250 rectangle that's inside of it is 80%. 957 00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:10.875 And then the stack of three items then 958 00:27:10.875 --> 00:27:11.875 exist within the 959 00:27:11.875 --> 00:27:13.208 bounds of that rectangle. 960 00:27:13.208 --> 00:27:14.666 So there's a built in 961 00:27:14.666 --> 00:27:15.833 header thingy for pages? 962 00:27:16.250 --> 00:27:16.500 Yes. 963 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.000 Yeah, I think there's a footer as well. 964 00:27:19.416 --> 00:27:22.500 But okay, so there's a preset size for 965 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:25.458 headers that are part of every page that 966 00:27:25.458 --> 00:27:27.750 you just stuff the rectangle in there. 967 00:27:27.958 --> 00:27:28.666 Yep, exactly. 968 00:27:28.833 --> 00:27:29.250 I see. 969 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:30.541 And I think they're-- I was actually 970 00:27:30.541 --> 00:27:31.791 looking at how to tweak that. 971 00:27:31.791 --> 00:27:32.791 I don't know, because I'm 972 00:27:32.791 --> 00:27:34.250 only like four days into this. 973 00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:34.916 So I don't know how you 974 00:27:34.916 --> 00:27:36.041 change the size of the header. 975 00:27:36.416 --> 00:27:37.666 But I know that it obeys 976 00:27:37.666 --> 00:27:38.750 the margins of the page. 977 00:27:38.958 --> 00:27:40.791 So that's why I have my margin set so 978 00:27:40.791 --> 00:27:41.916 wide is because I wanted the 979 00:27:41.916 --> 00:27:42.791 header to be over to the right 980 00:27:42.791 --> 00:27:44.541 It's interesting, because it feels like you're 981 00:27:44.541 --> 00:27:46.291 building the page from first principles 982 00:27:46.291 --> 00:27:48.416 like you're making rectangles and then 983 00:27:48.416 --> 00:27:50.708 alignments and everything and... but also 984 00:27:50.708 --> 00:27:52.583 there's a hard coded header and footer. 985 00:27:52.875 --> 00:27:54.875 Like those concepts are so deeply 986 00:27:54.875 --> 00:27:56.750 embedded into how we think about 987 00:27:56.750 --> 00:27:58.458 documents that they're just there by 988 00:27:58.458 --> 00:27:59.833 default. It feels like something they 989 00:27:59.833 --> 00:28:01.541 would have added to the standard library 990 00:28:01.541 --> 00:28:03.416 instead of baked in. I don't know, 991 00:28:03.416 --> 00:28:04.333 Maybe! It's just how 992 00:28:04.333 --> 00:28:05.541 you... Yeah, I don't know. 993 00:28:05.541 --> 00:28:06.166 Fair disclaimer. 994 00:28:06.458 --> 00:28:07.500 If you're more experienced than me, 995 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:08.916 you're probably like, "Oh, why are 996 00:28:08.916 --> 00:28:10.083 you doing it like that? 997 00:28:10.083 --> 00:28:11.958 You really are like- you're gluing rocks 998 00:28:11.958 --> 00:28:13.083 together at this point." 999 00:28:13.083 --> 00:28:15.875 So this is with like three days of 1000 00:28:15.875 --> 00:28:17.125 actually working on this. 1001 00:28:17.541 --> 00:28:19.500 But to the point where I'm-- I know just 1002 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:20.500 enough to be dangerous. 1003 00:28:20.750 --> 00:28:22.083 So I was able to put together a whole 1004 00:28:22.083 --> 00:28:24.625 slide deck in one sitting for this. 1005 00:28:25.083 --> 00:28:26.833 And then so we come out of the page 1006 00:28:26.833 --> 00:28:28.666 setup, I set some other stuff like okay, 1007 00:28:28.958 --> 00:28:29.625 I'm setting the align 1008 00:28:29.708 --> 00:28:30.625 to center and horizon. 1009 00:28:30.958 --> 00:28:33.041 So it's going to be aligned left to right 1010 00:28:33.041 --> 00:28:35.333 center and also top to bottom center, and 1011 00:28:35.333 --> 00:28:37.208 my text is going to be white with the 1012 00:28:37.208 --> 00:28:39.375 font Departure Mono on this size. 1013 00:28:39.833 --> 00:28:41.583 And then I just start typing text like 1014 00:28:41.583 --> 00:28:44.125 "Typst" line break "is pretty neat." 1015 00:28:44.125 --> 00:28:45.208 And we get that first slide 1016 00:28:45.208 --> 00:28:46.166 where you get that over that. 1017 00:28:46.375 --> 00:28:48.250 And then to make more slides, it's just 1018 00:28:48.250 --> 00:28:50.083 hash page break parentheses 1019 00:28:50.083 --> 00:28:51.875 because each slide is a page. 1020 00:28:52.583 --> 00:28:53.833 So from here on, it's 1021 00:28:53.833 --> 00:28:55.291 pretty much just text. 1022 00:28:55.708 --> 00:28:58.791 So horizon is just horizontal alignment? 1023 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:01.166 Yeah, it's horizontal center. 1024 00:29:01.583 --> 00:29:03.541 It's like the up down version of 1025 00:29:03.541 --> 00:29:04.708 center, if that makes sense. 1026 00:29:05.166 --> 00:29:08.000 Yeah, I built a GUI with egui recently 1027 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:09.708 doing immediate mode layout. 1028 00:29:10.125 --> 00:29:10.958 And I had to think about 1029 00:29:10.958 --> 00:29:12.208 that for one week straight. 1030 00:29:12.583 --> 00:29:14.583 So I have no... I have no spoons left. 1031 00:29:14.583 --> 00:29:15.666 I will trust you on that one. 1032 00:29:15.666 --> 00:29:15.875 Okay. 1033 00:29:16.291 --> 00:29:16.625 Yeah. 1034 00:29:16.625 --> 00:29:17.791 So I mean, the rest of the slide, it's 1035 00:29:17.791 --> 00:29:19.833 got some other cool things like it takes 1036 00:29:19.833 --> 00:29:22.791 themes for... so I mean, like, what we're 1037 00:29:22.791 --> 00:29:24.250 looking at now is a syntax highlighted 1038 00:29:24.250 --> 00:29:25.458 block, which is just 1039 00:29:25.458 --> 00:29:26.958 text in my actual slides. 1040 00:29:27.541 --> 00:29:30.875 And you can import themes and it uses the 1041 00:29:30.875 --> 00:29:32.708 dot TM theme format, 1042 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:34.791 which Sublime takes as well. 1043 00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:37.375 So I exported the the Monokai theme that 1044 00:29:37.375 --> 00:29:38.500 I use in my Sublime text 1045 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:40.458 editor, imported into that. 1046 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:43.666 And then all of a sudden now my slides 1047 00:29:43.666 --> 00:29:46.416 code formatting looks exactly like my 1048 00:29:46.416 --> 00:29:48.750 text editor does and Amos won't yell at 1049 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:50.000 me anymore because I'm not taking 1050 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.791 screenshots of my text 1051 00:29:51.791 --> 00:29:53.083 editor, which is great! 1052 00:29:53.625 --> 00:29:54.916 Yes and no. 1053 00:29:54.916 --> 00:29:55.125 Yes. 1054 00:29:56.375 --> 00:29:56.583 Yes, this-- 1055 00:29:56.791 --> 00:29:58.625 Amos was still yell at us. 1056 00:29:58.625 --> 00:29:59.083 Don't worry. 1057 00:29:59.083 --> 00:29:59.458 Yeah. 1058 00:29:59.458 --> 00:30:01.125 First of all, I don't yell. 1059 00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:02.958 I use my inside voice. 1060 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:06.500 This is so much better. 1061 00:30:07.083 --> 00:30:08.458 And I'm so happy for you, James. 1062 00:30:08.791 --> 00:30:12.416 But it's still I don't like text made 1063 00:30:12.416 --> 00:30:14.375 grammars, because they're just basically 1064 00:30:14.375 --> 00:30:16.000 regular expressions. 1065 00:30:17.333 --> 00:30:19.958 And this would have been the status quo 1066 00:30:19.958 --> 00:30:22.250 still today if the Tree-sitter 1067 00:30:22.250 --> 00:30:23.625 project hadn't been made. 1068 00:30:23.625 --> 00:30:25.375 And I wish I could credit the people. 1069 00:30:25.583 --> 00:30:27.500 Give me one hot second to look up the 1070 00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:29.833 people behind Tree-sitter who's 1071 00:30:29.833 --> 00:30:31.583 responsible for-- because like they wrote 1072 00:30:31.583 --> 00:30:32.875 actual parsers, they 1073 00:30:32.875 --> 00:30:34.041 wrote actual grammars. 1074 00:30:34.458 --> 00:30:36.791 And now you can have actual good-- 1075 00:30:36.791 --> 00:30:37.875 They're also great because they're 1076 00:30:37.875 --> 00:30:40.583 generated and they do one generated C 1077 00:30:40.583 --> 00:30:42.291 file per language, which means some 1078 00:30:42.291 --> 00:30:45.375 languages like Rust or Haskell and stuff 1079 00:30:45.375 --> 00:30:46.458 end up generating 1080 00:30:46.458 --> 00:30:49.333 like 90,000 line C files. 1081 00:30:49.666 --> 00:30:52.375 And it makes the GitHub view of those 1082 00:30:52.375 --> 00:30:53.833 files just fall over. 1083 00:30:54.208 --> 00:30:57.083 So the presentation, the initial 1084 00:30:57.083 --> 00:30:58.583 presentation of Tree-sitter at GitHub 1085 00:30:58.583 --> 00:31:00.791 Universe 2017 was by Max Brunsfeld. 1086 00:31:00.791 --> 00:31:01.291 And I know we've 1087 00:31:01.291 --> 00:31:02.416 interacted online before. 1088 00:31:02.666 --> 00:31:03.875 Max, you're a real one. 1089 00:31:03.875 --> 00:31:04.583 Thank you so much. 1090 00:31:05.125 --> 00:31:06.041 James, try again. 1091 00:31:06.916 --> 00:31:07.416 Do better. 1092 00:31:07.666 --> 00:31:08.333 I got to look up. 1093 00:31:08.333 --> 00:31:10.208 I don't know how Typst actually does code 1094 00:31:10.208 --> 00:31:11.333 highlighting because it like 1095 00:31:11.333 --> 00:31:13.833 it takes the TM theme option. 1096 00:31:13.833 --> 00:31:15.375 That's what I don't actually know what 1097 00:31:15.375 --> 00:31:18.125 the engine that uses to do that. 1098 00:31:18.208 --> 00:31:19.833 Right - maybe it's just taking the theme and not 1099 00:31:19.833 --> 00:31:22.875 the actual grammars. 1100 00:31:22.875 --> 00:31:23.666 Yeah, I don't know. 1101 00:31:23.833 --> 00:31:25.041 But it is also written in Rust. 1102 00:31:25.041 --> 00:31:26.666 So I'm sure if we wanted to glue in Tree-sitter 1103 00:31:26.666 --> 00:31:27.666 onto it, then they could. 1104 00:31:27.958 --> 00:31:28.333 Yeah, yeah. 1105 00:31:28.333 --> 00:31:29.000 It would be surprising 1106 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.250 if they didn't actually. 1107 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:31.208 Yeah. 1108 00:31:31.333 --> 00:31:33.416 But like I said, I've learned just enough 1109 00:31:33.416 --> 00:31:34.583 to become dangerous in it. 1110 00:31:34.958 --> 00:31:37.166 And because... this is how my brain works, 1111 00:31:37.166 --> 00:31:38.833 once I get a new tool, it's great. 1112 00:31:38.833 --> 00:31:40.500 Because all these problems where I went, 1113 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:41.583 I don't know how to solve it. 1114 00:31:41.833 --> 00:31:43.458 My brain immediately starts applying it 1115 00:31:43.458 --> 00:31:44.208 to that, even if it's 1116 00:31:44.208 --> 00:31:45.291 not the best fit tool. 1117 00:31:45.291 --> 00:31:47.291 But I've never had a tool for building 1118 00:31:47.291 --> 00:31:49.125 like UI designs before. 1119 00:31:50.250 --> 00:31:51.958 Which means even on embedded systems and 1120 00:31:51.958 --> 00:31:54.291 stuff, I've always just been, you know, 1121 00:31:54.625 --> 00:31:55.958 bare minimum text and 1122 00:31:55.958 --> 00:31:57.041 rectangles and stuff. 1123 00:31:57.041 --> 00:31:58.625 My minimalism isn't 1124 00:31:58.625 --> 00:32:00.500 some design principle. 1125 00:32:00.708 --> 00:32:01.583 It's like this is literally 1126 00:32:01.583 --> 00:32:03.000 literally the best I can do. 1127 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.958 And somehow it looks clean 1128 00:32:03.958 --> 00:32:05.291 and nice most of the time. 1129 00:32:05.666 --> 00:32:07.791 And that project for me was I'm building 1130 00:32:07.791 --> 00:32:08.750 a little E-paper 1131 00:32:08.750 --> 00:32:11.083 display clock for my house. 1132 00:32:11.083 --> 00:32:11.833 That's so cute! 1133 00:32:11.833 --> 00:32:13.333 And this is built on all 1134 00:32:13.333 --> 00:32:14.541 the PostStation stuff. 1135 00:32:14.541 --> 00:32:15.291 That's why the E-paper 1136 00:32:15.291 --> 00:32:18.750 thingy you posted about was for. 1137 00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:19.000 Yeah. 1138 00:32:19.458 --> 00:32:21.583 So I have PostStation, which is usually 1139 00:32:21.583 --> 00:32:23.250 set up so that you have like a Linux 1140 00:32:23.250 --> 00:32:25.333 computer running the show and you've got 1141 00:32:25.333 --> 00:32:26.833 like devices out on the edge. 1142 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:29.916 So what I do is once a minute on my 1143 00:32:29.916 --> 00:32:32.250 laptop, it generates this image. 1144 00:32:32.250 --> 00:32:34.625 It knows that it's a 400 by 300 pixel 1145 00:32:34.625 --> 00:32:35.875 black and white picture. 1146 00:32:35.875 --> 00:32:37.541 And I use Typst typesetting. 1147 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.750 And I actually fill in the time and 1148 00:32:40.750 --> 00:32:42.125 whatever the values are. 1149 00:32:42.125 --> 00:32:44.083 Because in that screenshot before where I 1150 00:32:44.083 --> 00:32:45.708 showed you building it as a crate, I can 1151 00:32:45.708 --> 00:32:49.166 just use a Rust string and format in the 1152 00:32:49.166 --> 00:32:52.208 numbers and words you see here and then 1153 00:32:52.208 --> 00:32:54.166 take that formatted string, run it 1154 00:32:54.166 --> 00:32:57.541 through Typst as a rendering engine, spit 1155 00:32:57.541 --> 00:32:59.666 it out into a bitmap, compress it so I 1156 00:32:59.666 --> 00:33:01.500 can put it over my wireless network and 1157 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:03.000 then send the compressed black and white 1158 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.000 image to my device, which reassembles it, 1159 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.875 shoves it onto the E-paper display and 1160 00:33:07.875 --> 00:33:08.541 then puts the E-paper 1161 00:33:08.541 --> 00:33:09.416 display back to sleep. 1162 00:33:09.958 --> 00:33:12.083 So now I have this whole new world of 1163 00:33:12.083 --> 00:33:14.041 user interfaces open to me because I've 1164 00:33:14.041 --> 00:33:16.041 never learned HTML or CSS really. 1165 00:33:16.625 --> 00:33:19.000 So now I have one tool in that field and 1166 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:20.250 I want to apply it to 1167 00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:22.041 literally everything. 1168 00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:24.000 That's very fun. 1169 00:33:24.375 --> 00:33:25.291 How do you deal with the, 1170 00:33:26.708 --> 00:33:27.416 well, you don't have 1171 00:33:27.416 --> 00:33:28.625 user supplied inputs. 1172 00:33:28.833 --> 00:33:30.250 So you're not, this is not a security 1173 00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:32.083 problem, but I'm just curious, do you 1174 00:33:32.083 --> 00:33:34.916 just do formats or do you have something 1175 00:33:34.916 --> 00:33:36.375 more fancy to do the templating and 1176 00:33:36.375 --> 00:33:39.375 actually replace placeholders with the 1177 00:33:39.375 --> 00:33:40.708 current time, et cetera? 1178 00:33:40.708 --> 00:33:41.916 So right now I just use format. 1179 00:33:42.291 --> 00:33:44.000 I know Typst itself, I'm not sure about 1180 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.375 it as a library, but as a language, it 1181 00:33:46.375 --> 00:33:47.791 has some concept of being 1182 00:33:47.791 --> 00:33:49.208 able to import documents. 1183 00:33:49.208 --> 00:33:52.000 So you can import JSON content or Toml or 1184 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.583 YAML content and tell it to query a field 1185 00:33:55.583 --> 00:33:58.041 in a JSON document or a Toml document. 1186 00:33:58.375 --> 00:33:59.750 So I think the idea is that you're able 1187 00:33:59.750 --> 00:34:02.416 to like glue that to API requests or, you 1188 00:34:02.416 --> 00:34:03.708 know, other metadata. 1189 00:34:03.708 --> 00:34:04.333 So there's probably a 1190 00:34:04.333 --> 00:34:05.500 more clever way to do it. 1191 00:34:05.958 --> 00:34:07.333 For me, the most expedient thing was 1192 00:34:07.333 --> 00:34:09.416 format because it's just, I'm taking from 1193 00:34:09.416 --> 00:34:12.125 chrono hour and minute and then using 1194 00:34:12.125 --> 00:34:13.791 that, you know, two digit 1195 00:34:13.791 --> 00:34:16.375 padded, put it here kind of thing. 1196 00:34:16.583 --> 00:34:18.416 But it does as a language have some 1197 00:34:18.416 --> 00:34:20.125 ability, like I think at the compilation 1198 00:34:20.125 --> 00:34:22.541 stage, you can tell it to load this JSON 1199 00:34:22.541 --> 00:34:24.625 file and pull this, you 1200 00:34:24.625 --> 00:34:25.708 know, sort of like a JQ. 1201 00:34:26.333 --> 00:34:28.166 It does this concept of variables or 1202 00:34:28.166 --> 00:34:29.916 environment or something like that. 1203 00:34:30.291 --> 00:34:31.416 So there's definitely room for that. 1204 00:34:31.625 --> 00:34:32.958 It probably depending on how I was 1205 00:34:32.958 --> 00:34:34.625 driving it. If I'm pulling it as a crate, 1206 00:34:34.625 --> 00:34:36.333 as a Rust library, I'd probably just have 1207 00:34:36.333 --> 00:34:37.166 the Rust library do 1208 00:34:37.166 --> 00:34:38.416 the smartness on that. 1209 00:34:38.416 --> 00:34:39.916 If I was using it as a command line tool, 1210 00:34:40.458 --> 00:34:42.791 it might be more amenable to scripting to 1211 00:34:42.791 --> 00:34:44.291 say like pull it, I'll make sure that 1212 00:34:44.291 --> 00:34:45.625 I've prepared data.json. 1213 00:34:46.125 --> 00:34:47.458 And then I tell it to pull this 1214 00:34:47.458 --> 00:34:49.958 information out of data.json or something 1215 00:34:49.958 --> 00:34:51.833 in my bash script before 1216 00:34:51.833 --> 00:34:53.833 I call the compile step. 1217 00:34:53.958 --> 00:34:54.833 This is very cool. 1218 00:34:55.250 --> 00:34:56.875 By the way, I just checked on the 1219 00:34:56.875 --> 00:34:58.583 official website and it is 'Typst.' 1220 00:34:58.875 --> 00:34:59.750 You are correct. 1221 00:34:59.750 --> 00:35:03.541 There is the IPA in the crates page, which 1222 00:35:03.541 --> 00:35:05.375 everyone should do, honestly, just put 1223 00:35:05.375 --> 00:35:07.500 the internet- international phonetic 1224 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.250 alphabet of your name so 1225 00:35:09.250 --> 00:35:10.291 people know how to pronounce it. 1226 00:35:10.583 --> 00:35:10.791 Nice. 1227 00:35:10.916 --> 00:35:12.208 Yeah, this is where I'm at. 1228 00:35:12.208 --> 00:35:13.416 I've been enjoying it heavily. 1229 00:35:13.791 --> 00:35:16.416 We'll see in a couple more episodes if 1230 00:35:16.416 --> 00:35:19.250 I'm still using this for this, but I am 1231 00:35:19.250 --> 00:35:21.250 absolutely chuffed with it so far. 1232 00:35:21.250 --> 00:35:23.375 And I wanted to share my excitement with 1233 00:35:23.375 --> 00:35:24.666 you because I know we've talked a lot 1234 00:35:24.666 --> 00:35:26.416 about layouting and how 1235 00:35:26.416 --> 00:35:28.333 to get pretty content. 1236 00:35:28.833 --> 00:35:29.333 We have. 1237 00:35:29.791 --> 00:35:32.583 And I have been doing some, like I said, 1238 00:35:32.583 --> 00:35:34.291 I built an application with egui. 1239 00:35:34.791 --> 00:35:36.791 And in my typical fashion, it's an 1240 00:35:36.791 --> 00:35:37.791 article about something completely 1241 00:35:37.791 --> 00:35:39.875 different, but I dedicate several pages 1242 00:35:39.875 --> 00:35:41.875 to rendering a timestamp. 1243 00:35:42.166 --> 00:35:43.250 So exactly like you have here. 1244 00:35:43.250 --> 00:35:45.416 That's why my mind's thinking about that. 1245 00:35:45.791 --> 00:35:48.708 You have 12 colon 34 and I'm looking at 1246 00:35:48.708 --> 00:35:50.291 it and the colon is too wide. 1247 00:35:50.291 --> 00:35:52.208 There's too much space on either end 1248 00:35:52.208 --> 00:35:53.875 because you're just using a monospace 1249 00:35:53.958 --> 00:35:55.375 font, which is the 1250 00:35:55.375 --> 00:35:56.666 second best thing you can do. 1251 00:35:57.125 --> 00:35:58.458 And you like this font. 1252 00:35:59.500 --> 00:36:01.291 But for me, I wanted to have consistent 1253 00:36:01.291 --> 00:36:02.791 spacing and not have the numbers jump 1254 00:36:02.791 --> 00:36:04.125 around when the time changes. 1255 00:36:04.541 --> 00:36:08.583 But one is narrower than seven, which is 1256 00:36:08.583 --> 00:36:11.083 narrower than eight, et cetera. 1257 00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:13.458 So there's a yeah, there's an entire 1258 00:36:13.458 --> 00:36:15.166 section in one of my articles just about 1259 00:36:15.166 --> 00:36:17.375 rendering timestamps correctly with serif 1260 00:36:17.375 --> 00:36:18.541 non-monospace fonts. 1261 00:36:19.250 --> 00:36:20.208 And it made me think of that. 1262 00:36:20.208 --> 00:36:21.416 I was just saying, I haven't gotten to 1263 00:36:21.416 --> 00:36:23.458 messing with the kerning of anything yet, 1264 00:36:23.458 --> 00:36:24.458 but I know it's possible. 1265 00:36:25.708 --> 00:36:27.958 I don't know if you maybe you pretend to 1266 00:36:27.958 --> 00:36:29.208 like this font just because it's 1267 00:36:29.208 --> 00:36:30.333 monospace and that makes 1268 00:36:30.333 --> 00:36:31.458 everything so much simpler. 1269 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:32.958 You know, little column A, 1270 00:36:32.958 --> 00:36:34.916 little column B, you know. 1271 00:36:35.458 --> 00:36:36.875 But yeah, Typst is interesting for this 1272 00:36:36.875 --> 00:36:39.083 because like, you mentioned tiny-skia. 1273 00:36:39.541 --> 00:36:41.833 Skia is the- correct me if I'm wrong- 1274 00:36:41.833 --> 00:36:43.291 I think it's the rendering library. 1275 00:36:43.708 --> 00:36:46.375 Think of it as HTML5 canvas, but that's 1276 00:36:46.375 --> 00:36:49.666 actually what backs that in Chromium. 1277 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.083 I believe there's two competing ones. 1278 00:36:52.416 --> 00:36:55.750 There's like Cairo, the GTK thingy and 1279 00:36:55.750 --> 00:36:57.666 Skia, I think is the one from Chromium. 1280 00:36:58.208 --> 00:37:00.500 And tiny-skia is a subset that drops a 1281 00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:02.708 bunch of features that 1282 00:37:02.708 --> 00:37:03.666 are hard to implement. 1283 00:37:04.166 --> 00:37:06.791 Like it's an 80 20% thingy. 1284 00:37:06.791 --> 00:37:08.250 They dropped like the 20% of features 1285 00:37:08.250 --> 00:37:08.750 that were responsible 1286 00:37:08.750 --> 00:37:09.791 for 80% of the code. 1287 00:37:10.416 --> 00:37:13.333 And so it's all safe Rust and only 1288 00:37:13.333 --> 00:37:15.833 slightly slower, something like that. 1289 00:37:16.041 --> 00:37:18.125 And that gives you like, you can do text 1290 00:37:18.125 --> 00:37:19.041 rendering, you can render 1291 00:37:19.041 --> 00:37:21.583 gradients and various shapes. 1292 00:37:22.083 --> 00:37:23.583 The round ones are the hard ones to 1293 00:37:23.583 --> 00:37:24.833 render, but then you still 1294 00:37:24.833 --> 00:37:25.916 have to do the typesetting. 1295 00:37:25.916 --> 00:37:26.833 You still have to do the layout. 1296 00:37:26.833 --> 00:37:27.583 And I'm assuming that's 1297 00:37:27.583 --> 00:37:28.875 where Typst actually comes in. 1298 00:37:28.875 --> 00:37:30.000 And it makes a ton of sense. 1299 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.500 I've been wondering how I can generate 1300 00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:33.500 open graph previews for links from my 1301 00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:35.458 websites with like title and the 1302 00:37:35.458 --> 00:37:36.250 description and everything. 1303 00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:36.916 I think Typst would be 1304 00:37:36.916 --> 00:37:37.833 actually great for that. 1305 00:37:37.875 --> 00:37:38.958 I think it'd be perfect for that. 1306 00:37:38.958 --> 00:37:39.333 Yeah. 1307 00:37:39.333 --> 00:37:40.833 Because you can generate an SVG as well. 1308 00:37:40.833 --> 00:37:42.416 Because some browsers support that. 1309 00:37:42.416 --> 00:37:43.541 So you can you can serve both. 1310 00:37:43.541 --> 00:37:44.541 Yeah, built in, they have 1311 00:37:44.541 --> 00:37:47.541 export to PDF, SVG and PNG. 1312 00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:50.708 And then, like I said, there are other 1313 00:37:50.708 --> 00:37:51.541 crates that handle 1314 00:37:51.541 --> 00:37:52.541 like the rendering step. 1315 00:37:52.541 --> 00:37:54.333 So the one that I had is like, I forget 1316 00:37:54.333 --> 00:37:56.125 what it's called, but it's-- it renders 1317 00:37:56.125 --> 00:37:59.041 to a tiny-skia buffer, which means you 1318 00:37:59.041 --> 00:38:01.625 just get an array of RGBA pixels. 1319 00:38:01.625 --> 00:38:02.833 And you can do 1320 00:38:02.833 --> 00:38:03.958 whatever you'd like with them. 1321 00:38:03.958 --> 00:38:06.291 But-- you'd probably be good to go with 1322 00:38:06.291 --> 00:38:08.333 just the command line application, which 1323 00:38:08.333 --> 00:38:10.833 will dump out XML, PNG or whatever. 1324 00:38:10.833 --> 00:38:12.083 Oh, no, I would link against it. 1325 00:38:12.083 --> 00:38:12.791 It's a Rust crate. 1326 00:38:12.791 --> 00:38:13.833 I'm pulling it in. 1327 00:38:13.833 --> 00:38:16.500 I'm-- I have 900 crates in my graph. 1328 00:38:17.041 --> 00:38:17.333 Originally. 1329 00:38:17.333 --> 00:38:18.708 Why do you think I split 1330 00:38:18.708 --> 00:38:20.083 things by dynamic libraries? 1331 00:38:20.375 --> 00:38:21.166 It's gotten out of 1332 00:38:21.166 --> 00:38:22.166 control a long time ago. 1333 00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:24.083 I think my previous strategy would have 1334 00:38:24.083 --> 00:38:26.458 been to just make an SVG and then use an 1335 00:38:26.458 --> 00:38:28.125 SVG rendering engine to do that. 1336 00:38:28.125 --> 00:38:29.750 But the thing with the SVG is that it's 1337 00:38:29.750 --> 00:38:32.791 really not made for typesetting and 1338 00:38:32.791 --> 00:38:34.291 layouting and all that. 1339 00:38:34.291 --> 00:38:37.208 It's much closer to something like 1340 00:38:37.208 --> 00:38:39.875 PostScript than it is to something like, 1341 00:38:40.416 --> 00:38:41.541 like Typst, I guess, 1342 00:38:41.541 --> 00:38:44.500 because it's just put some text here, but-- 1343 00:38:44.500 --> 00:38:46.333 It's not all the way to rasterizing, but 1344 00:38:46.333 --> 00:38:47.500 it's one step down of 1345 00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:48.916 preprocessing or something. 1346 00:38:48.916 --> 00:38:49.750 There's so little you 1347 00:38:49.750 --> 00:38:50.875 can do with formatting. 1348 00:38:50.875 --> 00:38:52.333 Like if you place each individual 1349 00:38:52.333 --> 00:38:53.958 character, then it's fine, right? 1350 00:38:53.958 --> 00:38:55.875 Because it is able to pull a glyph from a 1351 00:38:55.875 --> 00:38:56.916 font and put it somewhere. 1352 00:38:56.916 --> 00:38:58.833 And then you can give it a 1353 00:38:58.833 --> 00:39:00.166 font weight or something. 1354 00:39:00.166 --> 00:39:01.791 But you can't really... in 1355 00:39:01.791 --> 00:39:03.000 HTML, you can do a lot. 1356 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.000 You can do a lot of topography. 1357 00:39:05.500 --> 00:39:06.583 I've never said that word out loud. 1358 00:39:06.666 --> 00:39:07.125 Wow. 1359 00:39:07.375 --> 00:39:09.000 But in SVG is very, very limited. 1360 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.666 And so, for example, the diagrams on my 1361 00:39:10.666 --> 00:39:12.333 website right now are exported from 1362 00:39:12.333 --> 00:39:14.416 draw.io, which is a diagramming software. 1363 00:39:14.958 --> 00:39:16.833 And they used to be first converted to 1364 00:39:16.833 --> 00:39:19.333 paths and then converted to SVG. 1365 00:39:19.333 --> 00:39:22.375 So I did like PDF paths and then SVG so 1366 00:39:22.375 --> 00:39:22.958 that it would render 1367 00:39:22.958 --> 00:39:24.041 exactly the same every where. 1368 00:39:24.041 --> 00:39:25.166 So even letters were paths. 1369 00:39:25.750 --> 00:39:27.625 But now I just take this, you export from 1370 00:39:27.625 --> 00:39:30.083 draw.io, which only displays correctly on 1371 00:39:30.083 --> 00:39:32.666 browsers because it uses foreign object 1372 00:39:32.750 --> 00:39:35.458 to put HTML inside the SVG so that you 1373 00:39:35.458 --> 00:39:37.208 get stuff like line wrapping and text 1374 00:39:37.208 --> 00:39:38.750 elements because SVG doesn't do that. 1375 00:39:38.750 --> 00:39:40.625 So that's how bad SVG is at this. 1376 00:39:40.875 --> 00:39:41.958 I think it does, but you 1377 00:39:41.958 --> 00:39:43.458 can't have bold tags and stuff. 1378 00:39:43.708 --> 00:39:45.250 Anyway, Typst is so much better for this. 1379 00:39:45.541 --> 00:39:46.333 I'm going to use this. 1380 00:39:46.541 --> 00:39:46.958 Thank you, James. 1381 00:39:46.958 --> 00:39:47.708 I'm excited about it. 1382 00:39:47.916 --> 00:39:49.375 I feel like there were two references 1383 00:39:49.875 --> 00:39:52.125 where I was thinking about Aladdin. 1384 00:39:53.541 --> 00:39:54.083 Which ones? 1385 00:39:54.333 --> 00:39:55.208 We're keeping that in. 1386 00:39:55.708 --> 00:39:55.875 Yeah. 1387 00:39:56.666 --> 00:39:58.041 When you're like, "It's a whole new world." 1388 00:39:58.041 --> 00:39:59.416 And I was like (singing) "A whole 1389 00:39:59.416 --> 00:40:01.125 new world!" 1390 00:40:01.125 --> 00:40:02.625 "Don't you dare close your eyes." 1391 00:40:02.875 --> 00:40:03.458 Exactly. 1392 00:40:03.583 --> 00:40:05.250 What's funny is that you can sing and 1393 00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:06.833 it's going to be on the record, but you 1394 00:40:06.833 --> 00:40:08.250 can cut it out in the edit and you can 1395 00:40:08.250 --> 00:40:10.458 just have us be like flustered because we 1396 00:40:10.458 --> 00:40:11.291 hear the whole new world. 1397 00:40:11.291 --> 00:40:12.083 We're trying to be serious. 1398 00:40:12.416 --> 00:40:12.875 Yeah, exactly. 1399 00:40:13.416 --> 00:40:15.375 And then the other one was a little bit 1400 00:40:15.375 --> 00:40:17.375 of column A and a little bit of column B. 1401 00:40:17.375 --> 00:40:18.041 Oh, yeah. 1402 00:40:18.375 --> 00:40:19.916 From when the genie-- yeah. 1403 00:40:20.125 --> 00:40:20.750 The genie song. 1404 00:40:21.125 --> 00:40:22.125 Anyways, thank you. 1405 00:40:22.375 --> 00:40:24.208 I have to say that flustered doesn't 1406 00:40:24.208 --> 00:40:25.750 necessarily mean anything sexual. 1407 00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:26.708 No, it's just "confused, 1408 00:40:26.708 --> 00:40:27.833 befuddled in a state of panic." 1409 00:40:27.833 --> 00:40:28.541 That's just my greatest 1410 00:40:28.541 --> 00:40:30.250 fear as a non-native speaker. 1411 00:40:30.625 --> 00:40:31.500 Flustered. 1412 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:33.083 I've only ever used flustered in a 1413 00:40:33.083 --> 00:40:34.541 context where you find someone a 1414 00:40:34.541 --> 00:40:35.750 little attractive or whatever 1415 00:40:36.250 --> 00:40:37.166 But no, it just means confused. 1416 00:40:37.458 --> 00:40:38.458 So I was correct. 1417 00:40:47.791 --> 00:40:49.291 This episode is sponsored by Depot: 1418 00:40:49.291 --> 00:40:50.583 the build acceleration platform 1419 00:40:50.583 --> 00:40:51.458 that's on a mission to 1420 00:40:51.458 --> 00:40:53.041 make all builds near instant. 1421 00:40:53.291 --> 00:40:54.500 If you're tired of watching your builds 1422 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:55.416 and GitHub actions crawl 1423 00:40:55.416 --> 00:40:56.125 like the modern day 1424 00:40:56.125 --> 00:40:57.291 equivalent of paint drying, 1425 00:40:57.625 --> 00:40:58.500 give Depot's GitHub 1426 00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.666 Actions runners a try. 1427 00:41:00.041 --> 00:41:01.208 They're up to 10X faster 1428 00:41:01.208 --> 00:41:02.541 with unlimited concurrency, 1429 00:41:02.541 --> 00:41:03.958 faster caching, support for 1430 00:41:03.958 --> 00:41:05.333 Linux, macOS, and Windows, 1431 00:41:05.333 --> 00:41:06.208 and they plug right into 1432 00:41:06.208 --> 00:41:07.125 other Depot optimizations 1433 00:41:07.416 --> 00:41:09.000 like accelerated container image builds 1434 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:10.416 and remote caching for Bazel, 1435 00:41:10.708 --> 00:41:12.500 Turborepo, Gradle, and more. 1436 00:41:12.875 --> 00:41:13.833 Depot was built by developers 1437 00:41:13.833 --> 00:41:15.000 who were tired of wasting time 1438 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:16.291 waiting on builds instead of shipping. 1439 00:41:16.583 --> 00:41:17.416 It's made for teams 1440 00:41:17.416 --> 00:41:18.333 that wanna move faster 1441 00:41:18.333 --> 00:41:19.333 and stay focused on 1442 00:41:19.333 --> 00:41:20.375 what actually matters. 1443 00:41:20.666 --> 00:41:22.000 That's why companies like PostHog 1444 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:23.000 use Depot to cut build 1445 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:24.333 times from over three hours 1446 00:41:24.333 --> 00:41:25.541 to just three minutes, 1447 00:41:25.541 --> 00:41:26.500 saving tens of thousands 1448 00:41:26.500 --> 00:41:27.750 of build hours every week. 1449 00:41:28.041 --> 00:41:29.000 Start your free 7 1450 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.125 day trial at depot.dev 1451 00:41:30.125 --> 00:41:31.208 and let them know we sent you.