WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:13.813 --> 00:00:15.673 This is Self-Directed Research. 00:00:15.763 --> 00:00:19.633 Our hosts, James and Amos, get hyped about different topics and take turns each week, 00:00:19.663 --> 00:00:21.253 presenting their ideas to each other. 00:00:21.673 --> 00:00:24.103 You can check out the website, YouTube or Spotify to watch 00:00:24.103 --> 00:00:28.783 this episode's presentation and visit sdr-podcast.com/episodes 00:00:28.783 --> 00:00:31.873 for presentations, videos, show notes and transcripts. 00:00:32.063 --> 00:00:34.043 New episodes are published every Wednesday. 00:00:34.883 --> 00:00:37.043 This episode is brought to you by CodeCrafters. 00:00:37.163 --> 00:00:39.653 Check out the link in our show notes or listen at the end for more 00:00:39.653 --> 00:00:43.013 information, after Amos goes in a slightly different tangent with the 00:00:43.043 --> 00:00:45.743 story, "My home automation journey." 00:00:51.711 --> 00:00:52.821 Yeah, I think so. 00:00:52.851 --> 00:00:54.581 Oh, you're seeing the window decorations. 00:00:54.866 --> 00:00:55.696 That's terrible. 00:00:55.786 --> 00:00:56.946 Are you going to complain about it? 00:00:57.406 --> 00:00:58.246 If you were me, you would. 00:00:58.466 --> 00:00:59.166 I'm fine. 00:00:59.786 --> 00:01:00.306 I don't know. 00:01:00.366 --> 00:01:01.786 I know you are, Amanda. 00:01:01.806 --> 00:01:02.576 It doesn't bother me. 00:01:02.626 --> 00:01:07.806 So my presentation today is called "My Home Automation Journey." 00:01:08.061 --> 00:01:12.853 And the subtitle is, "spending money vs spending time: why choose?" 00:01:12.976 --> 00:01:16.056 If you just look at the subtitle, it could be about AV equipment, it could 00:01:16.066 --> 00:01:21.382 be about anything, Hi-Fi, it could be about model planes, I don't know. 00:01:21.639 --> 00:01:24.409 I'm very interested to see where you end up because I 00:01:24.419 --> 00:01:29.209 worked for IoT companies for a couple of years and my rule has basically 00:01:29.209 --> 00:01:32.729 been: nothing smart in the house that I didn't write the code for. 00:01:32.909 --> 00:01:36.459 Which has actually actively made me not get into a lot of this. 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:39.439 So I'm very interested to hear where things are today. 00:01:39.649 --> 00:01:39.890 All right. 00:01:40.184 --> 00:01:43.083 I have a slide that just says, "No, you get up to turn off the lights." 00:01:43.093 --> 00:01:46.332 So I lived like a goblin for a bunch of my life, even though I had money. 00:01:46.389 --> 00:01:49.257 in the room, in in the bedroom, I only had like, a bulb at 00:01:49.277 --> 00:01:50.777 the top and no like bedside,. 00:01:51.187 --> 00:01:51.537 whatever. 00:01:51.637 --> 00:01:54.517 So you, you go in and then you read or whatever and then it's time 00:01:54.517 --> 00:01:57.149 to go to bed and someone has to get up and turn off the lights. 00:01:57.536 --> 00:01:58.796 I was tired of doing that, alright? 00:01:58.809 --> 00:02:01.596 I would always offer because I'm nice like that and I wanted to stop. 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:04.086 So you get a smart bulb, ? Uh, You don't know what you're doing. 00:02:04.086 --> 00:02:05.656 It's your first smart thingy. 00:02:05.766 --> 00:02:07.636 So you get a Philips smart bulb. 00:02:07.976 --> 00:02:09.076 You don't need to buy anything else. 00:02:09.096 --> 00:02:13.256 This one is 60 euros Well, sorry, 54.99 euros. 00:02:13.546 --> 00:02:14.582 They have cheaper ones. 00:02:14.603 --> 00:02:18.446 This one has warmth, so you can make it more yellow or more blue, and then 00:02:18.446 --> 00:02:20.056 I finally got an actual bedside lamp. 00:02:20.056 --> 00:02:22.696 I added this so you wouldn't get too sad for me like, "Oh, poor Amos. 00:02:23.076 --> 00:02:24.146 They never even had a bedside lamp." 00:02:24.266 --> 00:02:25.436 This one is 110 euros. 00:02:25.466 --> 00:02:27.366 You can see why I waited to get that one. 00:02:27.461 --> 00:02:30.191 anyway, if you look at this thing closer, . It has a little Bluetooth 00:02:30.191 --> 00:02:32.411 logo named after Harald Bluetooth. 00:02:32.651 --> 00:02:33.271 Is that true? 00:02:33.448 --> 00:02:37.748 Yeah, and the two runes are B and T and whatever the runes 00:02:37.748 --> 00:02:40.048 are, it's a magical rune for encanting. 00:02:40.131 --> 00:02:41.101 King of Sweden? 00:02:41.188 --> 00:02:41.718 Is that true? 00:02:41.718 --> 00:02:42.419 Oh, I don't know. 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:43.029 Something Nordic. 00:02:43.253 --> 00:02:45.553 So, you got the Bluetooth logo and then you have another logo 00:02:45.553 --> 00:02:47.393 with a 'Z', which stands for Zigbee. 00:02:47.693 --> 00:02:50.403 And we're going to be looking at a bunch of timelines in this episode. 00:02:50.463 --> 00:02:52.359 If you're not looking at slides, you should be. 00:02:52.399 --> 00:02:56.829 Go to sdr-podcast.com/episodes and find the slides for this 00:02:56.829 --> 00:02:59.959 because, oh boy, we have a lot of slides and a lot of timelines. 00:03:00.209 --> 00:03:03.359 so, so roughly Zigbee appeared in 2003. 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:09.309 In 2004, some Nokia engineers are like: the Bluetooth classic that we 00:03:09.309 --> 00:03:11.949 have- which is not called classic at this point, it's the only Bluetooth 00:03:11.949 --> 00:03:14.859 we have- the Bluetooth we have does not account for some scenarios. 00:03:14.859 --> 00:03:18.969 So they started experimenting with variants of it, like different things. 00:03:19.109 --> 00:03:22.485 And in 2004, they released what they've been doing for three years as Bluetooth 00:03:22.695 --> 00:03:27.745 Low End Extensions, which has the initials BLE, but it's not Bluetooth Low Energy. 00:03:28.395 --> 00:03:31.995 Then in 2006, they actually brand it Wibree. 00:03:32.088 --> 00:03:35.847 It is customer facing and has a nice little logo that I did not include. 00:03:35.847 --> 00:03:39.796 And I regret my past decisions Then 2009, 2010, we have actual 00:03:40.071 --> 00:03:42.981 Bluetooth 4.0 LE, low energy. 00:03:43.581 --> 00:03:46.881 And in 2011, we started having the first consumer devices to support it. 00:03:47.241 --> 00:03:50.001 The first phone, I guess, was the iPhone 4S that actually 00:03:50.001 --> 00:03:51.771 supports Bluetooth Low Energy. 00:03:51.926 --> 00:03:53.406 have you ever heard of X10? 00:03:53.796 --> 00:03:54.666 Not X11... 00:03:54.976 --> 00:03:55.596 X10 00:03:55.756 --> 00:03:56.026 Nn... 00:03:56.096 --> 00:03:56.616 no... 00:03:57.019 --> 00:04:02.728 If you were a smart home nerd in 90s and early 2000s, X10 was 00:04:02.728 --> 00:04:04.958 like the OG home automation thing. 00:04:04.958 --> 00:04:08.578 And I think it was wired, but maybe they had a wireless one later, but it was the 00:04:08.578 --> 00:04:12.348 one where you're like, "I can make my curtains open when I press a button!" 00:04:12.408 --> 00:04:14.548 I saw it, and I decided: you know what? 00:04:14.548 --> 00:04:18.678 This is too old, even for me, and I will not go there. 00:04:18.908 --> 00:04:20.808 So why does this thing support Bluetooth? 00:04:20.808 --> 00:04:22.578 Well, because Bluetooth is a brand. 00:04:23.004 --> 00:04:25.874 Everyone knows Bluetooth and loves to hate it. 00:04:26.094 --> 00:04:27.774 Everyone has a pair of Bluetooth headphones. 00:04:27.774 --> 00:04:28.584 People know how it works. 00:04:28.584 --> 00:04:32.674 They have mice, they have keyboards, they know you need to pair things, they 00:04:32.674 --> 00:04:34.004 don't care if it's low energy or not. 00:04:34.004 --> 00:04:37.661 It's kind of in the same device list on iOS and Mac and stuff. 00:04:37.835 --> 00:04:38.935 Also, you don't need a hub. 00:04:39.650 --> 00:04:43.610 You screw in your bulb and then you turn it on, it's looking to pair and you go on 00:04:43.610 --> 00:04:46.800 your phone, it's like, "Some light bulb will like to read all your contacts," and 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:47.980 you're like, "Sure, that sounds fine." 00:04:48.350 --> 00:04:52.390 And then you have a smart bulb Bluetooth is great because it got me in, right? 00:04:52.390 --> 00:04:55.240 If I bought this bulb and then it turns out that I needed this whole hub 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.300 thingy, I probably would have said, "Alright, well that's not for me then." 00:04:58.490 --> 00:04:58.700 Yeah. 00:04:58.700 --> 00:05:01.760 That's one of those things, working in IoT stuff, this is a huge pain in the 00:05:01.760 --> 00:05:04.852 butt because there are so many engineering solutions that are objectively better, 00:05:05.132 --> 00:05:09.204 but the competitive advantage of you have the remote for this thing in your 00:05:09.204 --> 00:05:13.084 pocket already and it will work, and it's something you're vaguely familiar 00:05:13.084 --> 00:05:16.401 with, You go, "Well, it's a Bluetooth thing, how do I put it into pairing mode? 00:05:16.601 --> 00:05:16.881 Okay. 00:05:16.881 --> 00:05:19.611 I'll read the manual and it's switch it six times," or something like that. 00:05:19.611 --> 00:05:20.131 And then it goes into 00:05:20.396 --> 00:05:22.166 - James, I have never once read the manual to 00:05:22.166 --> 00:05:23.316 put anything into pairing mode. 00:05:23.316 --> 00:05:24.676 I just long press all the things 00:05:24.901 --> 00:05:25.121 - Yeah. 00:05:25.881 --> 00:05:27.031 But even then, you know. 00:05:27.111 --> 00:05:30.761 It's a UX thing of like, you don't have to train someone how to use a handle. 00:05:30.791 --> 00:05:34.111 They've just seen so many handles before you can guess, even 00:05:34.111 --> 00:05:35.581 if it's a weird shape handle. 00:05:35.731 --> 00:05:38.461 It's the same with buttons and Bluetooth: if there's one button, you're going to 00:05:38.461 --> 00:05:40.431 press it or hold it or press it a bunch of 00:05:40.561 --> 00:05:44.941 - That is the one tip I want everyone to walk away with from 00:05:44.941 --> 00:05:48.551 this podcast today, If it has one button, try holding it, Just start 00:05:48.571 --> 00:05:52.261 long pressing things and see, wait till they blink, there's only one knob. 00:05:52.291 --> 00:05:55.261 There's only so many different things you can detect from the chip. 00:05:55.507 --> 00:05:56.317 Also, well... 00:05:56.327 --> 00:05:59.637 okay, so the downsides of Bluetooth, everybody hates it, but also it 00:05:59.637 --> 00:06:01.537 doesn't have mesh networking. 00:06:01.857 --> 00:06:03.047 It does, but it doesn't. 00:06:03.107 --> 00:06:07.973 It does in the standard, but it doesn't in my house, in any of the devices I own. 00:06:08.423 --> 00:06:13.193 And I have been looking for products that support something called Bluetooth Mesh, 00:06:13.203 --> 00:06:15.603 which was apparently conceived in 2014. 00:06:15.696 --> 00:06:20.986 The Bluetooth SIG adopted Bluetooth Mesh in 2017, and it is now 2024, for So you 00:06:20.986 --> 00:06:24.429 would assume that, like, half the devices in my house support Bluetooth Mesh. 00:06:24.579 --> 00:06:28.080 Unfortunately, I will never know, because when you go to the Qualcomm 00:06:28.090 --> 00:06:31.440 website for it, the table that should have a list of qualified products has 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:34.360 "wpDataTable with provided ID not found!" 00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:36.756 So, like, I do not know what actually supports it. 00:06:37.011 --> 00:06:38.981 We should probably explain: the opposite of a mesh 00:06:39.011 --> 00:06:40.451 is a point-to-point connection. 00:06:40.451 --> 00:06:44.041 So like Bluetooth was originally designed to be a point-to-point connection 00:06:44.061 --> 00:06:45.911 and generally a hub and spoke model. 00:06:45.931 --> 00:06:49.601 So you have what's called a central, which is usually your phone or your laptop or 00:06:49.601 --> 00:06:52.851 whatever, and the peripheral, which is usually the low powered device, like your 00:06:52.851 --> 00:06:55.287 headphones or the light bulb or, whatever. 00:06:55.287 --> 00:06:57.781 It's explicitly a point-to-point communication, 00:06:57.781 --> 00:06:59.117 which you've run into before. 00:06:59.117 --> 00:07:01.647 If you have headphones that you want to pair with two devices, I don't 00:07:01.647 --> 00:07:04.310 want to ruin the punchline, but if you have two people in Amos' home 00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:08.050 that want to control the lights, that is not so very hub and spoke. 00:07:08.050 --> 00:07:08.540 Yes. 00:07:08.663 --> 00:07:12.743 I was bringing up mesh networking for range reasons. 00:07:12.753 --> 00:07:16.170 If you're starting to have some sort of a large dwelling? 00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:21.010 You might run into range issues and then the whole mesh networking thing means 00:07:21.010 --> 00:07:25.982 that as long as two devices are close enough, then you can reach all of them. 00:07:26.682 --> 00:07:28.002 So that's it for Bluetooth. 00:07:28.327 --> 00:07:30.757 But what about Wi-Fi, right? 00:07:30.762 --> 00:07:31.912 What a good looking question. 00:07:31.955 --> 00:07:32.771 Wi-Fi is great. 00:07:32.771 --> 00:07:33.791 It's high bandwidth. 00:07:33.791 --> 00:07:38.291 So you can have connected doorbells with cameras that send footage to the cops. 00:07:38.511 --> 00:07:41.601 It's connected to the internet, which is great 'cause you can then 00:07:41.661 --> 00:07:43.528 control it when you're away from home. 00:07:43.558 --> 00:07:45.748 So you can actually look at the camera at the same time as the 00:07:45.748 --> 00:07:47.248 cops are looking into the camera. 00:07:47.668 --> 00:07:50.278 And you already have a hub for Wi-Fi in your home! 00:07:50.473 --> 00:07:53.873 Chances are, because you have a home internet connection so you have a box 00:07:53.883 --> 00:07:56.573 that your internet service provider sent you and that one does Wi-Fi, 00:07:56.573 --> 00:07:58.403 it's been doing Wi-Fi for a long time. 00:07:58.553 --> 00:08:01.683 If you still have the box they gave you 12 years ago, just ask them to 00:08:01.683 --> 00:08:04.623 send you a new one because you've been missing out on multiple years of 00:08:04.623 --> 00:08:06.756 research on radio frequency signals. 00:08:07.338 --> 00:08:09.908 I do have a bunch of Wi-Fi devices in my home. 00:08:10.208 --> 00:08:12.708 Against my better judgment, I have Elgato Keylights, which 00:08:12.708 --> 00:08:14.518 are very nice, very powerful. 00:08:15.488 --> 00:08:16.962 They come with a little control center. 00:08:16.962 --> 00:08:20.582 The problem is, if you have a Wi-Fi device, is that they could speak anything. 00:08:20.682 --> 00:08:23.472 Usually, they just listen for HTTP on some port. 00:08:23.522 --> 00:08:26.702 So, it's nice because you can just reverse it pretty easily. 00:08:26.702 --> 00:08:29.872 But then you need to have their app installed on your phone and on your Mac. 00:08:29.872 --> 00:08:32.022 So they need to make an app for everything and they could sneak 00:08:32.022 --> 00:08:33.222 anything they want in that app. 00:08:33.602 --> 00:08:34.778 I also have a Roomba. 00:08:34.778 --> 00:08:36.988 It's a little robot cleaning machine. 00:08:36.988 --> 00:08:41.650 It also is on the Wi-Fi and same thing: you need their app and their app is 00:08:41.650 --> 00:08:44.570 going to sell you parts way before you need to replace them and everything. 00:08:44.709 --> 00:08:45.289 So it's not great. 00:08:45.319 --> 00:08:49.259 And then I also bought a smart plug, which is nice because you can see how 00:08:49.259 --> 00:08:52.912 much energy is consumed by something, but again: it's on the Wi-Fi. 00:08:53.272 --> 00:08:56.684 And those kind of devices are problematic. 00:08:56.684 --> 00:08:59.556 And I think get featured a lot in one of my favorite subreddits, 00:08:59.566 --> 00:09:01.266 which is called Internet of Shit. 00:09:01.482 --> 00:09:04.442 Here's some headlines from the news There will be a link to 00:09:04.562 --> 00:09:05.713 the subreddit in the show notes. 00:09:06.028 --> 00:09:08.348 Definitely, producer is violently shaking her head. 00:09:08.868 --> 00:09:09.108 Uh, 00:09:09.108 --> 00:09:12.248 "Your Cheap Android TV Streaming Box May Have a Dangerous Backdoor." 00:09:12.708 --> 00:09:14.328 I don't know if that's double entendre or something. 00:09:14.458 --> 00:09:18.398 "Millions of hacked toothbrushes could be used in cyber attack, researchers warn." 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:22.377 Something like 3 million toothbrushes used in distributed denial of 00:09:22.377 --> 00:09:23.957 service attacks against something. 00:09:23.977 --> 00:09:28.411 For all I know, the one time my blog got taken down, it was by toothbrushes. 00:09:29.082 --> 00:09:30.417 Was it really that actual attack? 00:09:30.445 --> 00:09:31.735 No, it was not the same at all. 00:09:31.910 --> 00:09:32.800 But it would have been funny! 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:33.550 That'd be fun. 00:09:33.730 --> 00:09:38.180 Another headline, "Wyze says camera breach led 13,000 customers 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.130 briefly see to other people's homes." 00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:42.170 Kind of a radical approach to dating. 00:09:42.170 --> 00:09:44.630 I'm feeling more and more secure in my position of: nothing I 00:09:44.630 --> 00:09:46.480 didn't write the code for gets on- 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:47.640 It goes on. 00:09:47.650 --> 00:09:51.450 "The security issue is being blamed on, quote, 'a third party caching 00:09:51.450 --> 00:09:54.360 library,' but the company acknowledges that it let customers down." 00:09:54.530 --> 00:09:56.550 They're just like- imagine them blaming cURL. 00:09:56.550 --> 00:09:58.120 They're like, "No, libcurl is the issue." 00:09:58.219 --> 00:10:01.270 Go get, uh, I forgot his name, the author of cURL. 00:10:01.371 --> 00:10:04.496 That's always those 'you can end up seeing other people's account' as 00:10:04.496 --> 00:10:08.898 someone misconfigured their caching proxy and the caching proxy returns someone 00:10:08.898 --> 00:10:10.608 else's auth key and stuff like that. 00:10:10.608 --> 00:10:13.799 I feel like that's not even just for devices, but websites, that's the one 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:16.181 where it's like, "Oh, all of a sudden you can see everyone's DMs now." 00:10:16.211 --> 00:10:17.771 It is a really easy mistake to make. 00:10:17.771 --> 00:10:19.831 Okay, one last headline from ZDNet. 00:10:19.881 --> 00:10:22.231 "FBI recommends that you keep your Internet of Things 00:10:22.231 --> 00:10:23.991 devices on a separate network." 00:10:24.301 --> 00:10:27.111 Which is what I should do, but don't do, but should do. 00:10:27.161 --> 00:10:28.091 Really, you should do that. 00:10:28.101 --> 00:10:29.481 Also, don't have anything on Wi-Fi. 00:10:29.721 --> 00:10:31.031 I'm gonna quote from the article. 00:10:31.031 --> 00:10:33.930 " The FBI says owners of Internet of Things devices should isolate this 00:10:33.930 --> 00:10:36.750 equipment on a separate Wi-Fi network, different from the one they're using 00:10:36.760 --> 00:10:39.810 for their primary devices, such as laptops, desktops, and smartphones." 00:10:40.059 --> 00:10:43.339 This pull quote is great: "'Your fridge and your laptop should not be on the 00:10:43.339 --> 00:10:47.109 same network,' the FBI's Portland office said in a weekly tech advice column." 00:10:47.369 --> 00:10:48.699 Now, who is actually doing that? 00:10:49.009 --> 00:10:52.475 People for whom it would be hard to penetrate other devices, even if 00:10:52.475 --> 00:10:54.940 you had local access to the network? 00:10:55.090 --> 00:10:59.956 I don't know that any normal person is doing that, like non tech nerd. 00:11:00.144 --> 00:11:02.624 Like you're saying, a lot of people just get the box from their ISP, 00:11:02.634 --> 00:11:05.864 they plug it in, they read the password off the back, and they use that, and then 00:11:05.864 --> 00:11:07.504 they never think about it ever again. 00:11:07.784 --> 00:11:08.254 Yeah. 00:11:08.554 --> 00:11:12.404 On that same article, it also says to change the factory set default password 00:11:12.434 --> 00:11:14.354 on devices, which is never the case. 00:11:14.404 --> 00:11:17.954 Every time I'm at someone's place, if they know they have an internet 00:11:17.954 --> 00:11:19.724 box, it's already like a victory. 00:11:19.904 --> 00:11:23.044 other downsides of Wi-Fi: range is limited. 00:11:23.056 --> 00:11:24.516 Basically there's a trade off here. 00:11:24.636 --> 00:11:27.196 If you do 2.4 gigahertz, it goes through the walls better. 00:11:27.196 --> 00:11:29.416 The lower the frequency, the further it'll go basically. 00:11:29.676 --> 00:11:32.486 But then the higher the frequency, the more bandwidth you can have. 00:11:32.756 --> 00:11:37.673 So that's why, some people run dual band so they can have very fast internet if 00:11:37.673 --> 00:11:41.091 they're downstairs near the router and if they're up in the room they still want to 00:11:41.101 --> 00:11:43.111 be able to read The Journal or whatever. 00:11:43.551 --> 00:11:47.631 Also because it's a complicated protocol the cost of adding Wi-Fi 00:11:47.651 --> 00:11:50.191 to a product is just high ish. 00:11:50.651 --> 00:11:53.704 I have another timeline here kind of placing the two... 00:11:53.724 --> 00:11:57.677 Af 'White-Fi' and 'Super Wi-Fi' and ah Wi-Fi HaLow. 00:11:58.329 --> 00:12:01.601 Just kind of trying to place them on the timeline, so we understand why 00:12:01.901 --> 00:12:04.551 they're not used at all, that I know. 00:12:04.801 --> 00:12:09.731 It's because 2003 Zigbee, 2012 Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy, and 00:12:09.731 --> 00:12:12.181 then 2014, the first af thing. 00:12:12.272 --> 00:12:19.364 2016: Bluetooth 5, 2017 802.11ah and then 2019 - 2024 we have 00:12:19.364 --> 00:12:20.934 like Thread and Bluetooth 6. 00:12:21.141 --> 00:12:25.331 Basically, that's why there's a Zigbee icon on there and not a 00:12:25.428 --> 00:12:29.031 802.11af or 802.11ah on there. 00:12:29.221 --> 00:12:31.801 And even Zigbee is not really this consumer facing thing. 00:12:32.081 --> 00:12:35.853 What happened was, it was a thing used internally by different manufacturers 00:12:35.853 --> 00:12:38.513 and they were trying to keep some level of compatibility between them... 00:12:38.523 --> 00:12:42.677 people didn't know what Zigbee was, unless they were weird- I mean 'enthusiasts'- 00:12:42.837 --> 00:12:45.928 basically: the overall brand is Matter. 00:12:46.047 --> 00:12:49.817 And it's an initiative that includes multiple communication protocols, 00:12:49.847 --> 00:12:53.437 including Ethernet, Wi-Fi- so the things you already have- and Thread- 00:12:53.617 --> 00:12:57.040 the thing that Google kind of pioneered with the Nest series of products. 00:12:57.196 --> 00:13:01.236 Matter is the new name of CHIP connected to home over IP and connected 00:13:01.236 --> 00:13:03.986 to home over IP was an initiative launched by the Zigbee Alliance. 00:13:03.996 --> 00:13:05.486 So there's like lineage here. 00:13:05.844 --> 00:13:07.808 At their roots, Wi-Fi is 802.11. 00:13:07.828 --> 00:13:09.218 So it's an IEEE standard. 00:13:09.478 --> 00:13:13.608 The lower power ones like Zigbee use a different base 00:13:13.618 --> 00:13:15.838 protocol, which is 802.15.4. 00:13:16.258 --> 00:13:20.448 6LoWPAN was the old school one where it was like a compressed version of 00:13:20.498 --> 00:13:23.288 IPv6 over these wireless networks. 00:13:23.308 --> 00:13:25.998 And that's where a lot of this research around mesh networks came out of. 00:13:26.278 --> 00:13:30.318 I know the whole lineage with like Matter and CHIP and Thread and stuff like that. 00:13:30.378 --> 00:13:33.008 It seems like there's always a new consortium every two years where they've 00:13:33.018 --> 00:13:36.228 added another layer and a new group of people and they're doing more stuff over 00:13:36.228 --> 00:13:38.398 it and someone's shipping some radios. 00:13:38.398 --> 00:13:41.577 But from someone who designs these devices and sometimes contracts with 00:13:41.577 --> 00:13:45.517 people who need help designing these devices, it's always hard pressed to 00:13:45.517 --> 00:13:47.907 find anything more than a tech demo. 00:13:48.237 --> 00:13:51.716 And I feel like the only way these things are starting to get adoption is 00:13:51.716 --> 00:13:56.586 because people who have like, Alexas or Apple TVs and things like that. 00:13:56.596 --> 00:14:00.446 These vendors are starting to put the radios in all of their devices. 00:14:00.491 --> 00:14:01.101 That is correct. 00:14:01.613 --> 00:14:06.806 The Apple TV 4k fourth generation is acting as a thread bridge, and it's 00:14:06.806 --> 00:14:10.746 very sad and alone and frightened because no device is connecting to it. 00:14:10.776 --> 00:14:14.586 But it is there as a bridge whenever I buy my first Thread thingy. 00:14:14.962 --> 00:14:16.352 Speaking of Apple TV... 00:14:16.454 --> 00:14:18.384 When you have two lamps, Bluetooth is fine. 00:14:18.394 --> 00:14:21.924 When you have even four or five, whatever, eight, let's say, let's go crazy. 00:14:22.194 --> 00:14:24.734 But eventually, you might want to use Siri to turn on and 00:14:24.734 --> 00:14:26.014 off some things in your house. 00:14:26.077 --> 00:14:28.927 And the way to do that in the Apple ecosystem is HomeKit. 00:14:29.152 --> 00:14:35.345 And they have Home applications for iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad, and the 00:14:35.345 --> 00:14:37.165 Home app for Mac is really weird. 00:14:37.345 --> 00:14:38.645 It's really, really strange. 00:14:38.744 --> 00:14:42.351 But to do that, you need a bridge, which is actually a Zigbee bridge. 00:14:42.441 --> 00:14:45.351 So because I was already in the Philips Hue ecosystem, I just bought 00:14:45.351 --> 00:14:47.088 their Bridge, which is 60 bucks. 00:14:47.158 --> 00:14:49.828 All the slides are in French because I looked for English versions of 00:14:49.828 --> 00:14:52.885 their store listings, but they don't have the same products and 00:14:52.885 --> 00:14:55.032 the same things in the same prices. 00:14:55.162 --> 00:14:58.726 Yeah, you have the Bridge, you just connect it over Ethernet or Wi-Fi. 00:14:58.726 --> 00:15:00.346 This is the Ethernet version that I have. 00:15:00.366 --> 00:15:01.306 It has an IP address. 00:15:01.356 --> 00:15:02.596 It has access to the internet. 00:15:02.816 --> 00:15:06.620 And it also, if you go to the settings of Philips Hue it has the Zigbee channel. 00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:08.600 So you know it's Zigbee even if you weren't paying attention. 00:15:08.637 --> 00:15:14.584 And you can add that hub to your Apple Home as a secondary hub. 00:15:14.834 --> 00:15:18.024 The main hub is going to be something like an Apple TV or a HomePod. 00:15:18.044 --> 00:15:19.354 For me, it's an Apple TV 4K. 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.043 And then you can add as many bridges as you want in one of them. 00:15:22.043 --> 00:15:24.155 In my case, it's a Philips Hue Bridge. 00:15:24.351 --> 00:15:26.111 And if you're not looking at the slides- which you 00:15:26.111 --> 00:15:30.803 can see at sdr-podcast.com/episodes- Amos has apparently named their 00:15:30.803 --> 00:15:32.783 Apple TV "Living Room brick." 00:15:33.038 --> 00:15:35.028 Yes, because it looks like a brick! 00:15:35.403 --> 00:15:39.608 My laptop is, um, 'crepe' because you can flip it open and closed. 00:15:40.098 --> 00:15:41.918 I have a 'souffle' which is my Mac studio. 00:15:41.918 --> 00:15:44.178 It's a bigger version of the 'pancake' which is a Mac mini. 00:15:44.428 --> 00:15:45.788 My home network is delicious. 00:15:45.875 --> 00:15:48.645 So just want to quickly note that Philips Hue is dead, long live Philips 00:15:48.645 --> 00:15:50.415 Hue, but it's Signify Netherlands. 00:15:50.590 --> 00:15:54.828 As far as I know, Signify has always been making Philips Hue stuff under the Hue 00:15:54.838 --> 00:16:00.081 brand, but depending on where you look, some of the things are going to be marked 00:16:00.171 --> 00:16:02.171 as being from Signify or from Philips Hue. 00:16:02.421 --> 00:16:05.942 So, for example, the manufacturer of the Bridge here is Signify Netherlands BV. 00:16:06.332 --> 00:16:10.221 But then if you do an arp-scan on my local network, you'll see a 00:16:10.221 --> 00:16:14.191 bunch of Internet of stuff, Things, including the Bridge, and it's going 00:16:14.191 --> 00:16:15.671 to show up as Philips Lighting BV. 00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:16.237 So... 00:16:16.336 --> 00:16:17.716 they're just confused. 00:16:18.137 --> 00:16:19.657 And this is without even getting into who actually 00:16:19.657 --> 00:16:22.237 makes them because most of these devices are just white labeled. 00:16:22.247 --> 00:16:26.897 So typically there will be like an ODM in China where they say: we want a light 00:16:26.897 --> 00:16:32.844 bulb that speaks Zigbee that can work with HomeKit that has this power usage or 00:16:32.844 --> 00:16:34.674 this lighting profile and stuff like that. 00:16:34.674 --> 00:16:36.774 Philips might be one of the exceptions. 00:16:36.774 --> 00:16:39.594 I think they still get their stuff made there, but it's less off-the-shelf. 00:16:39.614 --> 00:16:44.414 But a huge amount of these smart home things are just coming out of 4 or 5 00:16:44.414 --> 00:16:46.384 original design manufacturers in China. 00:16:46.404 --> 00:16:49.427 You can either have what's called a CM, which is a contract manufacturer, 00:16:49.427 --> 00:16:52.107 which is like, "We've designed it and we want you to build it." 00:16:52.157 --> 00:16:54.459 And then ODMs are sort of both. 00:16:54.489 --> 00:16:58.909 You go to them and you go, "We want a light bulb that does Zigbee that has 00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:01.186 these LEDs for this amount of money." 00:17:01.446 --> 00:17:04.556 And then they design it and they design it in a way that they can manufacture it. 00:17:04.556 --> 00:17:08.164 And a lot of times they copy and paste that design, not as a negative thing, 00:17:08.174 --> 00:17:12.028 like if you go to a company, they're going to pull off their shelf to give 00:17:12.028 --> 00:17:15.798 designs, and most of the time it's just sometimes different plastics or 00:17:15.798 --> 00:17:18.168 labels or the booklet is different. 00:17:18.218 --> 00:17:20.888 And this is the same for a lot of things like Bluetooth headphones or smart 00:17:20.888 --> 00:17:23.838 speakers and stuff like that, if you wonder why they all work the same and 00:17:23.838 --> 00:17:26.528 they make the same beep and they do the same thing and they show up as the 00:17:26.528 --> 00:17:29.863 same thing on your phone, it's because there's like four companies that make 00:17:29.863 --> 00:17:31.383 all the Bluetooth speakers in the world. 00:17:31.403 --> 00:17:34.443 And these companies are just putting their label on it. 00:17:34.473 --> 00:17:37.943 And then eventually when they go broke five years later, it's like: 00:17:37.943 --> 00:17:40.036 okay, who supports those devices? 00:17:41.201 --> 00:17:45.586 The slide we're looking at is a result arp-scan and it's showing 00:17:45.596 --> 00:17:50.076 IPv4 address, Mac addresses and vendor, looked up from the OUI database that 00:17:50.076 --> 00:17:52.036 you can get from the IEEE website. 00:17:52.566 --> 00:17:53.536 I did that today. 00:17:53.626 --> 00:17:54.906 And we can see a bunch of vendor names. 00:17:54.946 --> 00:17:55.616 There's Apple Inc. 00:17:55.626 --> 00:17:58.416 of course, I have a iPhone and stuff, and Apple TV. 00:17:58.416 --> 00:18:00.236 There's FREEBOX, that's my ISP. 00:18:00.426 --> 00:18:04.170 iRobot Corporation is the cleaning robot, the Roomba, and then we have... 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.162 well, Logitech, I forget what Logitech thing I have in my house 00:18:07.162 --> 00:18:09.492 that's on the Wi-Fi, so that's frightening, I should check that. 00:18:09.782 --> 00:18:10.752 Visionscape Co. 00:18:11.102 --> 00:18:11.512 Ltd. 00:18:11.592 --> 00:18:12.432 I don't know what that is. 00:18:12.632 --> 00:18:13.922 Raspberry Pi (Training) Ltd. 00:18:13.942 --> 00:18:16.032 I know what that is, we're getting to that, unfortunately. 00:18:16.382 --> 00:18:18.822 But then there's also Hon Hai Precision Ind. 00:18:18.822 --> 00:18:19.042 Co. 00:18:19.072 --> 00:18:19.782 Ltd? 00:18:20.432 --> 00:18:22.152 And I forget what that one is. 00:18:22.422 --> 00:18:24.892 I knew at some point, but I don't remember. 00:18:25.092 --> 00:18:27.052 And then some that are just not in the database. 00:18:27.292 --> 00:18:28.689 So who knows what they are. 00:18:28.863 --> 00:18:32.653 So you buy the Philips Hue bridge, and then you add it as a secondary bridge 00:18:32.653 --> 00:18:37.193 to your HomeKit thing, and what it does is that it acts as this Zigbee bridge, 00:18:37.473 --> 00:18:40.813 and then it exports those to Apple HomeKit, so suddenly all the things you 00:18:40.813 --> 00:18:44.063 had in your Philips Hue app, you can also show them in your Apple Home app, 00:18:44.063 --> 00:18:45.423 and then you can tell Siri, "Hey..." 00:18:45.673 --> 00:18:48.193 I'm not gonna say the full sentence, because it's gonna turn off all 00:18:48.193 --> 00:18:51.073 the lights, but you can tell Siri to turn things on and off. 00:18:51.073 --> 00:18:55.189 Which doesn't really work for my devices on Wi-Fi. 00:18:55.209 --> 00:18:58.539 My key lights and my Roomba: they're just on the Wi-Fi, they can't 00:18:58.549 --> 00:18:59.559 talk to the Philips Hue bridge. 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:00.229 So what do you do? 00:19:00.329 --> 00:19:04.810 Well, you buy a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W And then you add an open source app called 00:19:04.810 --> 00:19:09.535 Homebridge on it and that lets you talk to a bunch of different things: it costs you 00:19:09.565 --> 00:19:14.925 20 bucks, so pretty reasonable price point It's a third of the Philips Hue Bridge. 00:19:15.122 --> 00:19:19.912 It's a 1GHz quad core ARM Cortex A53 CPU, 64 bit CPU for 00:19:19.912 --> 00:19:22.902 20 bucks, with 512MB of RAM. 00:19:22.902 --> 00:19:24.172 This is, like, amazing. 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:28.175 It does speak Wi-Fi, it does speak Bluetooth 4.2, has a mini HDMI 00:19:28.175 --> 00:19:31.245 port, so if it doesn't boot, you can actually put a screen on there, you 00:19:31.245 --> 00:19:32.585 can plug in a keyboard and everything. 00:19:32.585 --> 00:19:33.600 It's a tiny computer. 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:38.446 I actually had mine powered by plugging the USB-C into my internet router. 00:19:38.473 --> 00:19:39.678 That was enough power to run it. 00:19:40.018 --> 00:19:45.303 So it was just like, it was hanging off of my router, this little like red cable with 00:19:45.303 --> 00:19:48.372 a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W hanging off of it. 00:19:48.582 --> 00:19:50.022 And then HomeBridge has a bunch of plugins. 00:19:50.022 --> 00:19:53.522 I'm showing a screenshot with a HomeBridge Hue, which I wasn't using 'cause I 00:19:53.522 --> 00:19:54.663 actually had the Philips Hue Bridge, 00:19:54.663 --> 00:19:58.899 but I had like a plugin for my key lights from some random guy on 00:19:58.899 --> 00:20:00.289 the internet- thanks random guy! 00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:01.829 Derjayjay, big up. 00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:04.669 and then Homebridgeroomba2, this one is actually under the 00:20:04.669 --> 00:20:06.309 homebridge-plugins organization. 00:20:06.309 --> 00:20:09.455 This is a Homebridge verified badge, I don't know what that means exactly. 00:20:09.686 --> 00:20:12.266 And what that means is that I'm happy again, everything works. 00:20:12.419 --> 00:20:16.123 I can just buy more Philips Hue stuff, like a dimmer switch, the more 00:20:16.123 --> 00:20:18.463 recent model: 22 euros for one switch. 00:20:18.663 --> 00:20:21.708 A smart plug: 35 euros. 00:20:22.228 --> 00:20:24.878 A connected button, 22 euros. 00:20:25.208 --> 00:20:28.378 I thought this one was a thing you could turn to like dim lights, 00:20:28.408 --> 00:20:30.098 but no: it's just a button. 00:20:31.068 --> 00:20:34.988 You can take the button out of the thing if you want to take the button with you. 00:20:35.088 --> 00:20:36.558 So the round thing detaches. 00:20:37.178 --> 00:20:39.218 And then you can just have the button in your hand. 00:20:39.288 --> 00:20:39.958 Well, that's handy. 00:20:39.998 --> 00:20:41.528 Who, wouldn't look at this and assume that's the 00:20:41.528 --> 00:20:42.444 thing you can turn on, like- 00:20:42.444 --> 00:20:43.374 Well, yeah, what's the point? 00:20:43.374 --> 00:20:46.864 You just go bonk and you, like, that's, you turn and boom. 00:20:47.074 --> 00:20:49.254 Well, I'm pretty sure I don't speak a lot of French, but 00:20:49.274 --> 00:20:51.554 'bouton', I'm guessing means button. 00:20:52.344 --> 00:20:55.174 I mean, yes, if I had only read the description, but I was 00:20:55.174 --> 00:20:58.174 on Amazon, I just was like, "This thing looks like you can turn it," 00:20:58.824 --> 00:21:02.867 and you can, because it's just like magnetically attached to the support. 00:21:03.427 --> 00:21:07.067 But imagine my surprise when it just came off and it was: Oh, it's by design. 00:21:07.077 --> 00:21:10.305 Like even the butt of the button looks okay, so it's meant for it to happen. 00:21:10.305 --> 00:21:11.575 It's not dysfunctional or anything. 00:21:11.975 --> 00:21:15.068 So you buy a bunch of those and then you can attach them to the wall with 00:21:15.068 --> 00:21:18.838 3M adhesives and then your original light switches become useless because 00:21:18.858 --> 00:21:22.745 if you actually use them, it cuts the power to the smart bulb and then 00:21:22.745 --> 00:21:24.765 they don't work anymore, you can't turn them off and on, you can't 00:21:24.765 --> 00:21:26.275 dim them, it just resets the thing. 00:21:26.275 --> 00:21:26.805 So what do you do? 00:21:27.065 --> 00:21:29.375 You buy one of these, also Philips Hue. 00:21:29.495 --> 00:21:30.955 It's a wall switch module. 00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:34.768 It costs 45 bucks and it's tiny enough that you can actually 00:21:34.768 --> 00:21:36.518 disassemble your switches. 00:21:36.588 --> 00:21:37.888 This is the part I really wanted to talk about. 00:21:38.068 --> 00:21:40.728 I'm pretty sure I told my landlord I was doing this, so it's okay. 00:21:41.068 --> 00:21:44.988 I will still have a place to live after this episode goes live. 00:21:45.136 --> 00:21:46.276 First of all, don't do this. 00:21:46.741 --> 00:21:49.781 Do not do this, but if you're gonna do this, be like me and actually buy 00:21:49.791 --> 00:21:53.250 electrician tools, buy a thing that tests the there's no electricity anymore. 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:55.750 And there's no electricity because you turned off the- 00:21:56.045 --> 00:21:58.205 Turned off your breaker and you actually made 00:21:58.205 --> 00:21:59.765 sure that it's not still live... 00:21:59.765 --> 00:22:01.970 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's not a thing with a 00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:04.920 capacitor that will shock you even though the thing is turned off, so 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.080 don't do this, but if you were... 00:22:06.130 --> 00:22:08.380 if a friend were to do it, here's what they would do. 00:22:08.495 --> 00:22:09.355 Do it good. 00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:11.140 They would first like, unclip. 00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:14.290 There's always a thing you can unclip around the exterior side of the switch. 00:22:14.813 --> 00:22:18.617 And then that would reveal some screws that you could unscrew, and then you 00:22:18.617 --> 00:22:20.097 would see how the switch is wired up. 00:22:20.097 --> 00:22:24.837 And that's where you would test with actual electrician equipment that there's 00:22:24.837 --> 00:22:27.057 no current in it, it's fine to keep going. 00:22:27.104 --> 00:22:31.673 They have the most vicious little jaw things you can press somewhere 00:22:31.673 --> 00:22:35.123 and it releases the cable instead of just using screws everywhere. 00:22:35.123 --> 00:22:36.203 Screws are so much nicer. 00:22:36.253 --> 00:22:39.743 So you can remove the original set of cables and then you can put in the tiny 00:22:39.743 --> 00:22:44.133 tiny- in comparison- cables that come with the Philips Hue Wall Switch Module. 00:22:44.353 --> 00:22:46.213 And that's great... 00:22:46.213 --> 00:22:48.748 And also give you something that makes sure that the smart 00:22:48.748 --> 00:22:49.874 bulbs get power all the time. 00:22:49.968 --> 00:22:51.038 I don't even know what to call it. 00:22:51.411 --> 00:22:53.381 It joins two cables together instead of being a switch. 00:22:53.381 --> 00:22:55.007 It's just a short circuit on purpose. 00:22:55.410 --> 00:22:57.150 And this is fine. 00:22:57.205 --> 00:23:01.082 It's just instead of running 220 volts AC through your switch... 00:23:01.530 --> 00:23:03.440 You keep just saying, "This is fine." 00:23:03.787 --> 00:23:06.877 I'm starting to wonder if this is in fact, are you okay? 00:23:07.020 --> 00:23:07.642 It is! 00:23:08.044 --> 00:23:08.574 I'm okay. 00:23:08.574 --> 00:23:10.425 This is like the reasonable part of it. 00:23:10.445 --> 00:23:12.695 Things are gonna get much more unsafe very soon. 00:23:12.722 --> 00:23:13.162 Oh no. 00:23:13.444 --> 00:23:16.604 This is fine if you have smart bulbs everywhere, which is fine if 00:23:16.604 --> 00:23:22.161 you have like one ceiling bulb, you can just- I don't know- spend 60 bucks and 00:23:22.161 --> 00:23:24.567 make it something that goes warm or blue. 00:23:25.227 --> 00:23:27.827 But if you have a series of spots, for example, if you have 00:23:27.827 --> 00:23:30.047 a whole rail of them, is that? 00:23:30.077 --> 00:23:31.407 No, rail is French... 00:23:31.447 --> 00:23:32.397 how do you say in English? 00:23:32.577 --> 00:23:33.237 A rail? 00:23:33.482 --> 00:23:35.762 I mean, if you have those lights that like hang over your 00:23:35.762 --> 00:23:38.622 countertops and can be positioned, usually those are called a rail of 00:23:38.622 --> 00:23:40.652 lights, but like a whole row of lights? 00:23:40.727 --> 00:23:41.367 Exactly! 00:23:41.427 --> 00:23:44.067 Because in my mind, rail goes to coke and sundress. 00:23:44.107 --> 00:23:45.117 There's no middle- whatever. 00:23:45.497 --> 00:23:46.197 Jesus! 00:23:46.417 --> 00:23:46.697 Wow... 00:23:48.812 --> 00:23:50.722 Okay, we are getting explicit. 00:23:51.172 --> 00:23:55.032 So this is fine if you have smart bulbs, but if you don't, 00:23:55.662 --> 00:23:57.672 you need something like a smart relay. 00:23:58.428 --> 00:24:01.748 It is available as a thing on Zigbee, you can turn it on and off, and it 00:24:01.748 --> 00:24:03.248 will actually act like a switch. 00:24:03.268 --> 00:24:07.028 It will either make the electricity pass, or it will cut it, just 00:24:07.028 --> 00:24:08.378 like a regular switch would do. 00:24:08.458 --> 00:24:12.184 But the problem is, it needs to handle 220 volts AC, at least in France. 00:24:12.656 --> 00:24:15.296 And the other problem is, at least in France, there's essentially 00:24:16.107 --> 00:24:18.685 two cables you have to worry about, not counting Earth. 00:24:19.075 --> 00:24:20.415 You have neutral and you have phase. 00:24:20.465 --> 00:24:23.235 In France, neutral doesn't come all the way to the switches. 00:24:23.605 --> 00:24:25.905 We only have phase coming to the switches and it sounds weird. 00:24:25.985 --> 00:24:26.525 Okay. 00:24:26.975 --> 00:24:28.840 Neutral goes all the way to all the lights. 00:24:28.995 --> 00:24:31.865 And phase comes all the way to the switches and then out of 00:24:31.865 --> 00:24:32.845 the switches into the light. 00:24:33.245 --> 00:24:38.615 which means if you buy a smart relay that expects to have neutral and phase 00:24:38.905 --> 00:24:42.465 in, it won't work because you don't have neutral all the way to the switch. 00:24:42.645 --> 00:24:47.105 And I'm not about to be running neutral wires through the walls in a rental unit. 00:24:47.425 --> 00:24:48.245 That doesn't make sense. 00:24:48.396 --> 00:24:51.426 I wish one of us was an electrician because there's a bunch of 00:24:51.426 --> 00:24:55.986 countries to save copper like during World War II and stuff like that came 00:24:55.986 --> 00:24:57.056 up with a bunch of different things. 00:24:57.056 --> 00:24:59.116 Like the UK has this thing called a ring main- 00:24:59.171 --> 00:24:59.983 Yeah, I know! 00:25:00.058 --> 00:25:02.048 Instead of, having sort of like a hub and spoke thing- 00:25:02.308 --> 00:25:03.695 They're so proud of it, too! 00:25:03.712 --> 00:25:05.992 Yeah, yeah- well, you're like: well, you have two paths to 00:25:05.992 --> 00:25:08.722 power, which means you can have twice as much current with half as much wire! 00:25:09.155 --> 00:25:12.271 Unless it gets disconnected in the middle, and then you just have a giant floating 00:25:12.314 --> 00:25:14.304 voltage differential in your house. 00:25:14.314 --> 00:25:17.459 I didn't know France also had its own quaint version of that. 00:25:17.616 --> 00:25:18.732 Well, I don't know. 00:25:18.952 --> 00:25:19.472 It works. 00:25:19.512 --> 00:25:20.562 It's fewer wires. 00:25:20.662 --> 00:25:27.171 Luckily, this Chinese brand, whatever, called Sonoff also makes smart relays 00:25:27.191 --> 00:25:29.021 that don't actually need neutral. 00:25:29.168 --> 00:25:30.518 You have live in, live out. 00:25:31.128 --> 00:25:33.378 And then you have switch one, switch two, and then you have 00:25:33.388 --> 00:25:34.558 different ways you can set it up. 00:25:34.558 --> 00:25:38.538 You can either also put the phase in the switch and then out of the switch into 00:25:38.568 --> 00:25:42.350 S2, or you can have the switch between S1 and S2 and that those both work. 00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:44.880 And you have different settings for rocker switches. 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.470 There's a bunch of combinations you can do, but this is actually 00:25:47.470 --> 00:25:48.600 what I wanted in the first place. 00:25:48.770 --> 00:25:52.389 What I thought the Philips wall switch thing did, I want something that lets 00:25:52.399 --> 00:25:53.959 me connect the original switch to it. 00:25:54.009 --> 00:25:57.279 And then also acts as a relay so that I can toggle it remotely 00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:58.779 from my phone using Apple HomeKit 00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:02.849 The problem is those do not really work with Philips Hue? 00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:06.629 Like I said, manufacturers have tried to maintain a semblance of compatibility 00:26:06.749 --> 00:26:10.859 in the Zigbee ecosystem but the thing is: it's just a bunch of payloads. 00:26:11.145 --> 00:26:14.465 If there's a field they don't know, then they're not gonna do anything with it. 00:26:14.705 --> 00:26:18.283 And so all the Philips stuff has a hard coded database of all devices they 00:26:18.283 --> 00:26:21.503 sell, and they know what fields mean, and that's why it works with their 00:26:21.503 --> 00:26:24.433 bridge, and they translate that to stuff that Apple HomeKit can understand. 00:26:24.583 --> 00:26:27.683 But the freaking smart relay I just got: it doesn't know what to do with it. 00:26:27.683 --> 00:26:30.190 So even if you could pair it with, it would be like, "Weird device, we don't 00:26:30.190 --> 00:26:31.371 know what it is, is it a lightbulb? 00:26:31.401 --> 00:26:31.791 Maybe?" 00:26:32.121 --> 00:26:32.651 But it's not. 00:26:32.775 --> 00:26:34.505 Bluetooth even tried to handle this. 00:26:34.505 --> 00:26:37.795 So they designed this whole system where every endpoint on Bluetooth is 00:26:37.795 --> 00:26:39.865 called a characteristic and it's a UUID. 00:26:39.865 --> 00:26:43.555 So you identify everything by a UUID and they have this database of well 00:26:43.555 --> 00:26:45.285 known ones and you can register them. 00:26:45.546 --> 00:26:46.516 You can say like, "Ah! 00:26:46.516 --> 00:26:47.746 I am a heart rate monitor. 00:26:47.766 --> 00:26:48.486 I am a thing!" 00:26:48.486 --> 00:26:49.876 Cause they assumed that everyone would go, "Ah! 00:26:50.066 --> 00:26:53.166 I will implement the heart rate monitor interface, and I will 00:26:53.166 --> 00:26:54.926 implement the smart band interface." 00:26:54.926 --> 00:26:57.086 And there's this whole thing where you can register this. 00:26:57.106 --> 00:27:00.836 And what actually ended up happening is everyone just makes a custom 00:27:00.836 --> 00:27:04.136 characteristic where they just shove bytes across it, like a serial port. 00:27:04.366 --> 00:27:08.206 And then it only works with their app because it only works with whatever bytes 00:27:08.226 --> 00:27:09.786 their app expects to shove across this. 00:27:09.786 --> 00:27:12.466 So, like, I've joked with other embedded people: it's like you either 00:27:12.486 --> 00:27:16.586 will have a standard ... it's bare minimum that everyone implements 00:27:16.586 --> 00:27:19.736 it because it's so simple, but like everyone hates how simple it is. 00:27:20.281 --> 00:27:24.701 Or if you have any kind of extension ability on it or the ability to 00:27:24.701 --> 00:27:28.751 transport some other protocol on top of this one, everyone will do 00:27:28.771 --> 00:27:32.191 totally proprietary and just figure out how to make it work for their one 00:27:32.191 --> 00:27:34.251 device, and everything is terrible. 00:27:34.261 --> 00:27:38.341 It's the carcinization of open standards is either: we'll be diluted to the 00:27:38.341 --> 00:27:41.451 simplest thing and no one can ever change it because everything will break. 00:27:41.721 --> 00:27:45.763 Or: everything just breaks day one, and it's successful because you 00:27:45.763 --> 00:27:48.973 can extend a million things over it, but nothing works together. 00:27:49.151 --> 00:27:50.703 So we're very much getting into this. 00:27:50.793 --> 00:27:52.285 I was like, okay, I have a thing. 00:27:52.285 --> 00:27:53.265 I have Homebridge. 00:27:53.695 --> 00:27:56.175 Maybe I can get Homebridge to speak Zigbee or whatever. 00:27:56.205 --> 00:28:00.905 The problem is my Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W- I can never remember the order of things. 00:28:00.905 --> 00:28:04.615 What the frick kind of branding is this?- doesn't speak Zigbee. 00:28:04.615 --> 00:28:05.245 So what do you get? 00:28:05.255 --> 00:28:06.295 You get an adapter. 00:28:06.725 --> 00:28:10.315 This is the ConBee III and it speaks Zigbee, And it has 00:28:10.315 --> 00:28:11.795 this nice little USB-A port. 00:28:11.795 --> 00:28:12.995 You know what the problem is James? 00:28:13.299 --> 00:28:16.969 Can you point me to the USB-A port on that Raspberry Pi Zero 2? 00:28:17.002 --> 00:28:19.030 You need a dongle for your dongle! 00:28:19.092 --> 00:28:20.282 No, you can't! 00:28:20.332 --> 00:28:20.932 No, you can. 00:28:20.992 --> 00:28:26.782 You can buy an OTG to USB-A socket cable, and then you can plug your 00:28:26.782 --> 00:28:29.632 USB-A in through your USB OTG port. 00:28:29.659 --> 00:28:32.632 And if you look on the bottom of that board, there are also pogo pads. 00:28:32.632 --> 00:28:35.772 So you can buy adapters that will give you a hub on that. 00:28:35.772 --> 00:28:36.042 Sure.. 00:28:36.042 --> 00:28:38.212 Because there are gold contacts on the bottom that 00:28:38.212 --> 00:28:39.702 are connected to the USB port. 00:28:40.273 --> 00:28:43.283 Okay, yeah, sure Okay, okay. 00:28:43.383 --> 00:28:45.703 Well, what I did instead is I bought a Raspberry Pi 4 00:28:47.748 --> 00:28:49.928 A much- a much more reasonable choice. 00:28:49.928 --> 00:28:52.560 Yeah, because the time it takes for them to ship one to me is 00:28:52.560 --> 00:28:55.611 smaller than the time it takes for me- and the cost is not really an issue. 00:28:55.611 --> 00:28:57.154 I think I have the listing somewhere... 00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.789 With all of the switches and light bulbs you've shown so far, 00:29:00.789 --> 00:29:04.119 I don't think the $40 Raspberry Pi is going to break the bank on this one. 00:29:04.804 --> 00:29:08.391 I think it was more like 60, but this one actually does have USB -A 00:29:08.401 --> 00:29:10.091 ports, so you can just plug the thing in. 00:29:10.320 --> 00:29:13.290 I got the kit, which comes with those nice little heatsinks that 00:29:13.290 --> 00:29:14.520 you have to install yourself. 00:29:15.193 --> 00:29:18.273 I got the nice little box as well, which is kinda wonky. 00:29:18.613 --> 00:29:21.873 And you can see a shot of my actual living room! 00:29:22.463 --> 00:29:25.443 That's the latest FREEBOX, which is actually very nice. 00:29:25.443 --> 00:29:28.543 It does Wi-Fi 7, it's the only thing in the house that can do Wi-Fi 7, it's very 00:29:28.543 --> 00:29:30.273 sad and alone, just like the Apple TV. 00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:33.207 And then you have the Philips Hue bridge, and then you have, my 00:29:33.207 --> 00:29:34.547 own bridge, and at that point... 00:29:34.942 --> 00:29:38.402 Homebridge is a thing to bring together third party devices 00:29:38.442 --> 00:29:40.892 into the HomeKit ecosystem. 00:29:41.141 --> 00:29:44.561 And if you're replacing an existing bridge with something else, you want 00:29:44.571 --> 00:29:45.851 more something like Home Assistant. 00:29:45.851 --> 00:29:47.421 I kept hearing about it, so I installed it. 00:29:47.631 --> 00:29:49.041 It's a pile of Python... 00:29:49.716 --> 00:29:52.486 and Javascript, and whatever, and you can see a shot of it. 00:29:52.486 --> 00:29:54.556 You can see like all the smart things I have in my home, you can 00:29:54.556 --> 00:29:57.206 see I have two different Apple TVs, I have one downstairs, one upstairs, 00:29:57.206 --> 00:29:59.406 I have a bunch of different lamps. 00:29:59.566 --> 00:30:02.406 Not all of them are smart bulbs, some have smart relays on there, 00:30:02.756 --> 00:30:05.683 and you can see it's sunny, and 10 degrees, and you can see I have the 00:30:05.683 --> 00:30:08.098 CO2 detector thingy, the Aranet4. 00:30:08.322 --> 00:30:10.142 There's a very nice E Ink display. 00:30:10.872 --> 00:30:13.582 Home Assistant is good, you can see what time I got up this morning. 00:30:13.632 --> 00:30:16.812 I said good morning to Siri at 9:19 a.m.. 00:30:16.912 --> 00:30:21.269 And it turned on all full blast, all the bulbs in my bedroom. 00:30:21.320 --> 00:30:22.080 You can see everything. 00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:26.322 So, you know, If someone wanted to creep on you and they had access to 00:30:26.322 --> 00:30:28.512 that, they could tell a frightening amount of things about your life, 00:30:28.892 --> 00:30:30.621 which is a good reason to secure it. 00:30:30.631 --> 00:30:32.341 You can see I have two notification settings. 00:30:32.341 --> 00:30:34.277 Those are almost definitely security updates. 00:30:34.317 --> 00:30:35.157 I should go do that. 00:30:35.487 --> 00:30:36.787 The ConBee III works. 00:30:36.917 --> 00:30:42.301 these are all the Zigbee devices I have connected to my ConBee III adapter. 00:30:42.301 --> 00:30:44.624 I still have some things on the Philips Hue Bridge, I need to like, 00:30:44.804 --> 00:30:48.264 dissociate them, re-pair them with a new bridge, move things over. 00:30:48.674 --> 00:30:51.631 But I already had a bunch of switches from Signify Netherlands 00:30:51.631 --> 00:30:54.840 BV- which we know is Philips Hue- already connected to the new bridge. 00:30:55.850 --> 00:30:57.080 And this was interesting. 00:30:57.100 --> 00:31:01.720 I had to add something called a quirk So the thing that bridges 00:31:01.750 --> 00:31:04.140 Home Assistant together with... 00:31:04.530 --> 00:31:07.499 well, with HomeKit is a plugin, but then there's also a bridge between Home 00:31:07.499 --> 00:31:10.689 Assistant and Zigbee, which is called ZHA. 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.419 as I mentioned: there's no real standard, like, Zigbee is this minimal thing, they 00:31:14.419 --> 00:31:15.869 can just put whatever they want in there. 00:31:16.099 --> 00:31:20.619 Sometimes, you have to add knowledge of some devices, especially, in this 00:31:20.619 --> 00:31:24.439 case, the switch is like a more recent model of whatever they had in their 00:31:24.439 --> 00:31:28.924 database, so you just add a little Python file on your Home Assistant 00:31:28.934 --> 00:31:32.685 thing which runs on the Raspberry Pi 4 which is next to the Apple TV. 00:31:33.115 --> 00:31:35.825 Yeah, you just paste in some Python code, and suddenly things start 00:31:35.825 --> 00:31:39.492 working- but how do you paste in Python code into a Raspberry Pi 4 which 00:31:39.492 --> 00:31:40.802 is not even hooked up to a display? 00:31:40.882 --> 00:31:45.386 Well: there's a plugin to Home Assistant called Studio Code Server and it opens 00:31:45.456 --> 00:31:48.914 Visual Studio Code in your browser, and you get syntax highlighting and 00:31:48.914 --> 00:31:50.764 everything and it's kind of amazing. 00:31:51.046 --> 00:31:55.423 I am astounded and I don't ... I don't know how positive that sentiment 00:31:55.423 --> 00:31:56.963 is, but it is certainly astounded. 00:31:57.043 --> 00:32:00.103 Once you do that, there's a "Manage Zigbee device" in the 00:32:00.106 --> 00:32:04.776 configuration thingy and you can go to Philips basic cluster and mode and write 00:32:04.776 --> 00:32:08.896 the value like 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on how you want your switch to act 00:32:08.946 --> 00:32:11.286 because it's a double switch thingy. 00:32:11.309 --> 00:32:14.973 Honestly, I probably should have just bought another Zigbee device that is 00:32:14.973 --> 00:32:18.193 actually supported, but I was like, "I bought the Philips thing, I will use it." 00:32:18.346 --> 00:32:21.375 And then of course you have to create automations because you now have something 00:32:21.391 --> 00:32:24.839 that has a turn on and turn off events and you have lights that can be turned 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:28.906 on and off, but you need to somehow 'when this happens, do that' action. 00:32:29.366 --> 00:32:31.406 And so you have to add automation to yourself, which again, you 00:32:31.406 --> 00:32:33.836 can also write as code, there's a thing called blueprints. 00:32:33.846 --> 00:32:36.556 You can click a button, it installs to your Home Assistant. 00:32:36.566 --> 00:32:39.586 There's a whole ecosystem of things because it's like Python, because it's 00:32:39.586 --> 00:32:42.176 scripting languages, it's very accessible, so a lot of people write things. 00:32:42.186 --> 00:32:45.286 So it's hard to tell if it's high quality or not, but also almost everything 00:32:45.296 --> 00:32:47.956 has a version of something that used to work at some point in a forum. 00:32:48.226 --> 00:32:49.976 It's like we're back in 2000s! 00:32:50.023 --> 00:32:52.793 You just have to go somewhere on a forum, find a solution for your problem. 00:32:52.890 --> 00:32:54.020 It's kind of charming really. 00:32:54.310 --> 00:32:59.310 And so that explains the tweets from October 25 saying, "gutted to announce 00:32:59.310 --> 00:33:02.160 that python is now involved in turning on my living room lights," which is true! 00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:03.230 It is! 00:33:03.280 --> 00:33:04.150 And it works. 00:33:04.338 --> 00:33:04.618 Oh yeah. 00:33:04.618 --> 00:33:05.538 A lot of Python. 00:33:05.538 --> 00:33:05.908 Yeah. 00:33:06.848 --> 00:33:07.490 Pile of it. 00:33:08.130 --> 00:33:13.590 So because it's like this very open source- I mean it in both sense of the 00:33:13.590 --> 00:33:18.940 term, have you ever heard of the 'open sores', like S O R E S expression? 00:33:19.230 --> 00:33:21.910 It's already an explicit episode cause we're keeping everything I said. 00:33:22.120 --> 00:33:24.880 Because it's all so open, it's kind of wonky sometimes, even though 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.598 the onboarding is fine, honestly, but you can make anything happen. 00:33:28.598 --> 00:33:31.346 You could have an if statement based on the time of day. 00:33:31.666 --> 00:33:35.663 Things that, because they're useful are already provided by 00:33:35.773 --> 00:33:38.343 ecosystems like the Apple Home thing and the Philips Hue thing. 00:33:38.343 --> 00:33:41.043 So in Apple Home there's a thing called Adaptive Lighting and 00:33:41.043 --> 00:33:43.923 it's going to change the color of the light as the day progresses. 00:33:44.193 --> 00:33:46.393 So in the morning it's going to be bluer and in the evening it's 00:33:46.473 --> 00:33:50.743 going to be warmer, more yellow, so that it helps you go to sleep. 00:33:51.193 --> 00:33:51.443 And 00:33:51.443 --> 00:33:52.383 then Philips has a different 00:33:52.383 --> 00:33:56.593 thing, which is depending on when you hit the switch, when 00:33:56.593 --> 00:34:00.693 you turn on the lights, it's going to go to a different scene, which 00:34:00.693 --> 00:34:03.283 has a different color, but it's the basic idea of, yeah, blue in 00:34:03.283 --> 00:34:04.883 the morning, yellow in the evening. 00:34:05.153 --> 00:34:06.183 I don't really have a conclusion. 00:34:06.590 --> 00:34:09.610 My last slide is "still cheaper than therapy" because it's expensive! 00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.530 I thought I had- no, no, no- I've been posting on social 00:34:12.530 --> 00:34:13.550 media about anger issues. 00:34:13.810 --> 00:34:14.900 This has helped a lot. 00:34:14.950 --> 00:34:17.961 Like, the anger management classes have helped too, but just being able to 00:34:17.961 --> 00:34:20.461 say, "Hey Siri, shut down everything." 00:34:20.491 --> 00:34:24.411 I do not want to get up again to turn off the freaking switches. 00:34:24.431 --> 00:34:26.701 Just turn off everything has been great. 00:34:26.721 --> 00:34:28.231 Honestly, you should try it. 00:34:28.401 --> 00:34:28.892 That's it. 00:34:29.102 --> 00:34:31.442 I was afraid that you saying that right then was 00:34:31.442 --> 00:34:34.162 going to turn off all your stuff and we'll be like, "Okay, bye, Amos!" 00:34:34.273 --> 00:34:34.453 Yeah. 00:34:34.453 --> 00:34:36.423 The computer- we just lose the video feed. 00:34:37.088 --> 00:34:37.418 Exactly. 00:34:37.418 --> 00:34:38.458 We were like, "Okay, and that's the end." 00:34:38.534 --> 00:34:41.844 It seems like one of those hobbies that appeals to folks who really 00:34:41.844 --> 00:34:43.526 like knowing a lot about the hobby. 00:34:43.526 --> 00:34:48.212 I say that without any derogatory connotation, because I have those too. 00:34:48.552 --> 00:34:52.982 This is not one of them, but it's like coffee or cars or wine or whatever, it's 00:34:52.982 --> 00:34:57.056 like: you do it, and then you go on forums and you talk about it and then 00:34:57.056 --> 00:34:58.746 you go to a local meetup about it... 00:34:58.746 --> 00:35:01.016 I guess, where would you have the meetup for the home automation one? 00:35:01.016 --> 00:35:03.246 It's got to be at someone's house so they can show off all of that. 00:35:03.246 --> 00:35:06.276 And then someone like crashes all the Zigbee devices in the house. 00:35:06.649 --> 00:35:09.919 Yeah, you're not wrong, but it's also frighteningly accessible, 00:35:09.999 --> 00:35:12.379 because you can buy a relay for 20 bucks and they're like, "Yeah! 00:35:12.379 --> 00:35:13.879 Just play electrician. 00:35:14.049 --> 00:35:14.859 What could go wrong?" 00:35:14.889 --> 00:35:15.889 I grew up with a dad. 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:19.079 He was a bit like a DIY type. 00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.389 So I learned some things not to do. 00:35:21.461 --> 00:35:24.951 I always did this when at least some other person was in the house and we went over 00:35:24.951 --> 00:35:28.182 like basic safety, like: what happens if I go *electrocution sounds* what do you do? 00:35:28.182 --> 00:35:30.530 Hit me with a stick, and not a conductive one. 00:35:30.551 --> 00:35:31.361 Exactly! 00:35:31.431 --> 00:35:34.841 but now when I'm at other people's places, I miss it. 00:35:35.191 --> 00:35:37.970 You go into a room and the light is at 100 percent and you're like, "Uh! 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:38.690 Can you tone it down?" 00:35:38.690 --> 00:35:40.460 And they're like, "What do you mean, tone it down? 00:35:40.910 --> 00:35:42.460 It's on or off, that's it." 00:35:42.817 --> 00:35:45.307 I would love to improve all of the lighting in this apartment. 00:35:45.667 --> 00:35:48.517 I do have a funny story about Home Assistant, if I can tell it? 00:35:49.357 --> 00:35:52.627 So we have a Google Home Pod thing in the living room. 00:35:52.857 --> 00:35:56.167 My partner is Spanish and he set it up in Spanish, obviously, cause 00:35:56.167 --> 00:35:58.045 he talks to his stuff in Spanish. 00:35:58.365 --> 00:36:02.775 I would only be able to turn on the lights in there if I said, you know, "Okay, 'the 00:36:02.775 --> 00:36:08.524 thing,' enciende salón," so like 'turn on the lights in the living room.' And then 00:36:08.524 --> 00:36:13.154 I set up Home Assistant on my phone and it was in English, and I tried to turn on 00:36:13.154 --> 00:36:17.084 the lights in the living room in Spanish and my Google Assistant responded and 00:36:17.084 --> 00:36:18.224 said, "I don't know what you're saying." 00:36:18.434 --> 00:36:20.044 And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. 00:36:20.064 --> 00:36:20.414 Cool. 00:36:20.424 --> 00:36:22.393 So then I now have to talk to it in English." 00:36:22.449 --> 00:36:25.329 Then there was a time where my partner and I were in the living 00:36:25.329 --> 00:36:26.969 room and we were talking in English. 00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:31.400 And then he tried to talk to the Google Home Pod in English and 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:32.710 tell it to "Turn off the lights." 00:36:33.290 --> 00:36:38.117 And I swear to you, the Google Assistant responded in English 00:36:38.437 --> 00:36:43.567 with a Spanish accent, "Sorry, I don't know what you're saying." 00:36:44.947 --> 00:36:45.167 Perfect. 00:36:45.777 --> 00:36:47.545 And I'm just like, "... what?" 00:36:47.965 --> 00:36:48.445 We both... 00:36:48.555 --> 00:36:49.215 It was crazy. 00:36:49.215 --> 00:36:50.115 It was so weird. 00:36:50.245 --> 00:36:52.475 Yeah, but that's such a fun failure mode. 00:36:52.475 --> 00:36:56.065 This is something that they could write and in a sci-fi book a decade ago. 00:36:56.065 --> 00:36:57.835 And I would go, "That's not how computers work. 00:36:57.835 --> 00:36:58.975 They would never do that." 00:36:59.355 --> 00:37:01.605 But now with LLMs and stuff, it could! 00:37:01.605 --> 00:37:04.255 I was chatting, I was using like advanced voice mode with ChatGPT, 00:37:04.275 --> 00:37:06.435 and it started randomly responding in different languages, but 00:37:06.705 --> 00:37:07.875 switch between French and English. 00:37:07.875 --> 00:37:09.465 And then I asked, "Why are you switching every time?" 00:37:09.465 --> 00:37:12.345 And it's like, "Okay, now when you speak French, I will respond in English. 00:37:12.345 --> 00:37:13.875 And when you speak English, I will respond in French!" 00:37:13.875 --> 00:37:14.195 I'll be like, "Ha! 00:37:14.195 --> 00:37:15.405 How did you get that idea?!" 00:37:15.825 --> 00:37:17.005 and that's the opposite of what I want. 00:37:17.071 --> 00:37:18.478 "Why are you thinking like that?" 00:37:18.478 --> 00:37:19.248 I don't know! 00:37:19.678 --> 00:37:23.692 Well, anyways, this episode, I learned some stuff, I followed along much 00:37:23.692 --> 00:37:26.032 more than a lot of the other episodes. 00:37:26.042 --> 00:37:28.482 So thank you for entertaining me at the very least. 00:37:28.556 --> 00:37:30.296 Yeah, I specifically made this slide deck for you. 00:37:30.296 --> 00:37:32.566 I had like eight different ideas and you were like, "This is the 00:37:32.566 --> 00:37:33.726 only one that's interesting to me." 00:37:33.732 --> 00:37:34.752 I was like, "This one! 00:37:34.772 --> 00:37:36.332 I think I know about this one!" 00:37:36.412 --> 00:37:36.652 Yeah. 00:37:36.792 --> 00:37:39.681 A hilarious amount of the stuff that I've done with Postcard RPC 00:37:39.701 --> 00:37:44.961 and Postcard actually comes from projects of me trying to do home automation stuff, 00:37:44.961 --> 00:37:48.881 but my insistence was I have to design the whole protocol and all the devices 00:37:48.881 --> 00:37:50.641 from scratch, and never got far enough. 00:37:50.691 --> 00:37:52.878 I have a handful of devices, none of them talk to each other. 00:37:52.928 --> 00:37:56.268 The lights behind my couch, I have a button and it controls them and 00:37:56.268 --> 00:37:59.828 I can change the colors on them and things like that, but I've built 00:37:59.858 --> 00:38:03.668 like three or four wireless and wired control protocols before. 00:38:03.888 --> 00:38:06.358 I'd usually get like one thing working and then I'm like, "Ah, 00:38:06.368 --> 00:38:07.428 the protocol isn't good enough." 00:38:07.498 --> 00:38:09.508 Then eventually I'm like, "Ah, I want to do something else." 00:38:09.538 --> 00:38:11.438 And I get stuck on another hobby instead. 00:38:11.438 --> 00:38:13.786 It's like putting a puzzle in front of someone before 00:38:13.786 --> 00:38:15.036 they're allowed to do something. 00:38:15.036 --> 00:38:15.536 Yeah. 00:38:15.556 --> 00:38:18.370 Honestly, like I think Zigbee is going to be around for a long time 00:38:18.370 --> 00:38:19.680 and it's not the worst solution. 00:38:19.680 --> 00:38:21.845 Well, it's the worst solution except for all the other ones. 00:38:21.905 --> 00:38:23.393 No, the worst solution is Wi-Fi, cause like... 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:26.895 People always put it on their home network and it's bad. 00:38:26.895 --> 00:38:30.728 But Zigbee is fine, it's small and innocent and, it's encrypted 00:38:30.728 --> 00:38:33.188 with a es 128 bit, I think? 00:38:34.048 --> 00:38:34.598 It can be. 00:38:34.598 --> 00:38:35.038 Yeah. 00:38:35.218 --> 00:38:35.418 Yeah. 00:38:35.418 --> 00:38:39.267 I was going to say: Wi-Fi is bad for two reasons. 00:38:39.357 --> 00:38:41.407 One is that the devices have access to the internet. 00:38:41.437 --> 00:38:44.397 Like that just intrinsically is a bad thing, which is also something I'm 00:38:44.397 --> 00:38:48.337 fairly surprised and worried about with Thread and Matter because they 00:38:48.337 --> 00:38:50.232 plan to bridge to the internet as well. 00:38:50.232 --> 00:38:53.781 The second one is that when it comes to radios, amplifiers are the 00:38:53.781 --> 00:38:57.541 expensive part, and you need amplifiers for both sending and receiving. 00:38:57.881 --> 00:39:00.841 And the problem is that Wi-Fi as a protocol expects every 00:39:00.841 --> 00:39:02.531 device to always be accessible. 00:39:02.911 --> 00:39:06.441 Which means that your device always needs to be listening if 00:39:06.461 --> 00:39:09.871 the router talks to it, which means it always has to have basically 00:39:09.871 --> 00:39:12.021 like the ear amplifier turned on. 00:39:12.341 --> 00:39:14.421 There are some fixes to this that aren't HaLow. 00:39:14.421 --> 00:39:18.761 Like HaLow is a very big one in that it changes that, but I think Wi-Fi 7 00:39:18.781 --> 00:39:23.701 or 7 E introduces what's called TWT or target wake time, Like that's one 00:39:23.701 --> 00:39:26.669 of the big things that BLE does and Zigbee does because what you want 00:39:26.669 --> 00:39:28.799 are typically called sleepy devices. 00:39:28.989 --> 00:39:32.259 You want them to shut the receiver down and you want them to go to low power mode, 00:39:32.539 --> 00:39:36.689 sleep for 18 seconds, wake up, turn the receiver on for as short as possible, 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.229 vomit all the data in both directions and then go back to sleep because it 00:39:40.229 --> 00:39:46.249 means that on average in an hour, your receiver's only on .01 percent of the 00:39:46.249 --> 00:39:48.829 time instead of 100 percent of the time. 00:39:49.414 --> 00:39:52.904 I just wanted to mention that I do not mean to kink shame but Bluetooth 00:39:52.904 --> 00:39:56.604 6.0 introduced something called Bluetooth channel sounding and that's too much 00:39:56.674 --> 00:39:57.431 even for me. 00:39:57.473 --> 00:39:58.596 I have to go now 00:40:06.125 --> 00:40:08.405 This episode is sponsored by CodeCrafters. 00:40:08.593 --> 00:40:11.863 CodeCrafters is a service for learning programming skills by doing. 00:40:12.533 --> 00:40:15.823 CodeCrafters offers a curated list of exercises for learning programming 00:40:15.823 --> 00:40:18.833 languages like Rust or learning skills like building an interpreter. 00:40:19.308 --> 00:40:22.848 Instead of just following a tutorial, you can instead clone a repo that contains 00:40:22.858 --> 00:40:26.588 all of the boilerplate already, and make progress by running tests and pushing 00:40:26.588 --> 00:40:29.928 commits that are checked by the server, allowing you to move on to the next step. 00:40:30.568 --> 00:40:33.538 If you enjoy learning by doing, sign up today using the link at 00:40:33.538 --> 00:40:37.658 sdr-podcast.com/codecrafters, or use the link in the show 00:40:37.658 --> 00:40:38.888 notes to start your free trial. 00:40:39.308 --> 00:40:41.828 If you decide to upgrade, you'll get a discount and a portion of 00:40:41.828 --> 00:40:43.368 the sale will support this podcast. 00:40:43.813 --> 00:40:47.503 That's sdr-podcast.com/codecrafters. 00:40:48.203 --> 00:40:50.583 Thanks to CodeCrafters for sponsoring this episode.