WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:13.966 --> 00:00:15.706 This is Self-Directed Research. 00:00:15.796 --> 00:00:19.516 Our hosts, James and Amos, get hyped about different topics and take turns each week 00:00:19.546 --> 00:00:20.986 presenting their ideas to each other. 00:00:21.376 --> 00:00:23.746 You can check out the website, YouTube or Spotify to watch the 00:00:23.746 --> 00:00:28.366 episode's presentation and visit sdr-podcast.com/episodes for 00:00:28.366 --> 00:00:31.966 previous episodes, presentations and videos, show notes and transcripts. 00:00:32.206 --> 00:00:34.216 New episodes are published every Wednesday. 00:00:34.576 --> 00:00:38.465 This week Amos discusses things you might not have known about clipboards. 00:00:38.864 --> 00:00:40.324 This episode is sponsored by CodeCrafters. 00:00:40.324 --> 00:00:46.454 Visit sdr-podcast.com/codecrafters for more information or to sign up today. 00:00:46.644 --> 00:00:49.024 Or stay tuned to the end of the episode for more information. 00:00:56.042 --> 00:01:00.242 I like that I'm on black tea and like downers 00:01:00.282 --> 00:01:04.232 and uh, James is on Red Bull? 00:01:04.522 --> 00:01:05.992 Can everyone see my slides? 00:01:06.512 --> 00:01:07.372 Looks lovely. 00:01:07.802 --> 00:01:10.142 I got tired of making presentations about Rust. 00:01:10.252 --> 00:01:12.462 I want to talk about something else for a change because I feel 00:01:12.462 --> 00:01:16.352 like I've been giving the same talk two or three times on SDR. 00:01:17.129 --> 00:01:19.524 Today's presentation is about clipboards. 00:01:19.544 --> 00:01:22.714 It's called "Things you might not have known about clipboards and some 00:01:22.714 --> 00:01:24.894 things I still do not understand." 00:01:25.224 --> 00:01:27.594 The reason I care about clipboards is because I make 00:01:27.594 --> 00:01:28.964 a lot of slide decks nowadays. 00:01:29.014 --> 00:01:30.314 I make them for SDR. 00:01:30.354 --> 00:01:33.734 We have slides every time, you can see them on the website, you can see them on 00:01:33.744 --> 00:01:35.354 the video if you watch them on YouTube. 00:01:35.824 --> 00:01:39.174 And sometimes we have code and when we have code, I don't want to have a 00:01:39.174 --> 00:01:43.414 picture of a code editor, I actually want to have syntax highlighted code. 00:01:43.494 --> 00:01:49.019 I want actual texts that will render, crisp at any resolution and have the 00:01:49.029 --> 00:01:53.919 color scheme that I chose and not some random dude who published a weird 00:01:53.919 --> 00:01:57.809 Google Slides plugin five years ago chose because it's going to be bad. 00:01:58.399 --> 00:02:03.149 And I did a bunch of weird stuff to make that happen. 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.779 It's linked to my website because I usually write things like as articles 00:02:06.779 --> 00:02:10.399 and also as videos, so I need to paste them in different places. 00:02:10.429 --> 00:02:13.179 And that led me to play a bunch with clipboards. 00:02:13.239 --> 00:02:17.719 And I just want to have an SDR episode where we go together over how weird and 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:19.929 cursed and fantastic clipboards are. 00:02:20.508 --> 00:02:24.424 I guess a good introduction is, as a kid, I got an Ubuntu CD, and 00:02:24.424 --> 00:02:25.864 that was the beginning of the end. 00:02:25.874 --> 00:02:29.389 I installed it on my parents' computer, I think? 00:02:29.739 --> 00:02:33.489 Before I got my own computers and it got me into the whole like Linux thing. 00:02:33.499 --> 00:02:34.299 It was over for me. 00:02:34.359 --> 00:02:37.339 Like it was, it was a gateway to becoming an open source maintainer, 00:02:37.339 --> 00:02:38.689 burning out and all that stuff. 00:02:38.828 --> 00:02:42.338 But one thing I learned is that on Linux- at least back then, I don't even know if 00:02:42.338 --> 00:02:46.188 that's still a thing today, it probably is- if you select text, it immediately 00:02:46.188 --> 00:02:50.258 goes into some clipboard, which is not called a clipboard, we'll get to that. 00:02:50.498 --> 00:02:53.878 But it goes somewhere, and then you can middle click somewhere else, and 00:02:53.878 --> 00:02:55.068 that's actually going to paste it. 00:02:55.081 --> 00:03:00.478 So, I had played with Windows a bit, the early Windows, I think my first 00:03:00.478 --> 00:03:03.080 Windows was Windows 3.11 for Workgroup. 00:03:03.186 --> 00:03:03.626 Hell yeah. 00:03:03.666 --> 00:03:05.616 I had a, I had an old DOS computer too. 00:03:05.626 --> 00:03:09.066 It was a IBM something-or-other, but it was like- it would boot in DOS. 00:03:09.346 --> 00:03:12.026 And if you needed to, you could boot into Windows to play 00:03:12.026 --> 00:03:13.456 a certain game or whatever. 00:03:13.701 --> 00:03:16.661 Exactly, you type W I N, enter, and then it would 00:03:16.671 --> 00:03:18.411 boot up into Windows, yes. 00:03:18.721 --> 00:03:22.581 And then I spent most of my time on Windows 95 and 98SE, you know. 00:03:22.921 --> 00:03:25.961 And crashes were a lot more frequent, I forgot how frequent crashes 00:03:25.961 --> 00:03:27.461 were, and how blessed we are today. 00:03:27.461 --> 00:03:30.463 Today, it just, kind of, sometimes the desktop reboots, that's it. 00:03:30.823 --> 00:03:32.063 That's what happens when you get a crash. 00:03:32.430 --> 00:03:34.920 For me, the clipboard was like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, right? 00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:37.130 Ctrl+C, it's in the clipboard, Ctrl+V, you paste it. 00:03:37.725 --> 00:03:40.629 Not at all the case, like this is the experience most people have 00:03:40.629 --> 00:03:41.929 of clipboards, I would imagine. 00:03:42.014 --> 00:03:46.596 But my first exposure to how weird they were was that on X, I was using 00:03:46.596 --> 00:03:50.129 it on Linux, but on X, which I think you can also use on various BSDs. 00:03:50.345 --> 00:03:52.795 So X11, xorg, I don't even know how to call it at this point. 00:03:52.907 --> 00:03:54.921 There are multiple selection buffers. 00:03:55.283 --> 00:03:59.093 The primary selection buffer is kind of the highlighting middle click 00:03:59.093 --> 00:04:00.303 thing that I just talked about. 00:04:00.563 --> 00:04:04.643 And then the clipboard selection buffer is the Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V thing 00:04:04.993 --> 00:04:10.163 that you get in GUI applications, applications using GTK, using Qt. 00:04:10.681 --> 00:04:12.531 And so there's a command line tool called xclip. 00:04:13.155 --> 00:04:14.975 And you can pipe things into it. 00:04:14.975 --> 00:04:18.195 So if you have like a command that generates a lot of text, you actually want 00:04:18.195 --> 00:04:21.975 to paste that somewhere into the browser, for example, you can run that command and 00:04:21.975 --> 00:04:27.395 then pipe and then xclip, but you have to specify `-selection clipboard`, otherwise 00:04:27.415 --> 00:04:29.795 it goes into the wrong selection buffer. 00:04:30.175 --> 00:04:32.485 Browsers are especially cursed as well. 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.170 Again, fond memories of my Linux on the desktop days. 00:04:35.170 --> 00:04:37.940 I have since moved to Windows and then to macOS. 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:42.530 I remember pasting an image into a Linux browser- so like doing a screenshot, and 00:04:42.530 --> 00:04:47.190 then Ctrl+V into a browser, like on GitHub or Twitter or whatever- could freeze it? 00:04:47.476 --> 00:04:50.921 And I'm not sure that's still the case, but honestly, I wouldn't be 00:04:50.921 --> 00:04:55.601 surprised, but now X has been phased out to some extent and there's 00:04:55.601 --> 00:04:59.221 Wayland, so I imagine clipboards are now breaking in new, exciting ways 00:04:59.321 --> 00:05:01.551 that I haven't even learned about yet. 00:05:01.816 --> 00:05:03.206 Always something to debug. 00:05:03.596 --> 00:05:05.086 So many opportunities for learning. 00:05:05.086 --> 00:05:05.866 Exactly. 00:05:06.616 --> 00:05:08.636 Oh, this is another fun one: I have a slide here. 00:05:08.666 --> 00:05:10.796 And again, you're missing out if you're not actually looking at the 00:05:10.796 --> 00:05:15.036 slides, you can get the PDFs of the slide decks on sdr-podcast.com. 00:05:15.056 --> 00:05:18.576 Go to episodes, find the one we're talking about, or you just watch this 00:05:18.576 --> 00:05:21.596 on YouTube, in which case you have been looking at the slide for quite some time. 00:05:21.826 --> 00:05:23.456 The slide is just the Twitter. 00:05:23.554 --> 00:05:25.764 message composer, whatever they're calling it. 00:05:25.954 --> 00:05:32.354 And it has a single camera emoji, like DSLR, not like movie camera. 00:05:32.914 --> 00:05:37.379 And that's the result of doing copy image from another tab and then 00:05:37.379 --> 00:05:40.399 pasting it into Twitter on Safari. 00:05:40.559 --> 00:05:43.299 Instead of pasting the image, it just pasted this emoji. 00:05:43.418 --> 00:05:43.958 What? 00:05:44.278 --> 00:05:44.488 What? 00:05:44.918 --> 00:05:46.958 Who was like, "This is what they'll want. 00:05:46.998 --> 00:05:50.208 This is, you know, exactly what they were looking for!" 00:05:51.068 --> 00:05:52.098 I have no idea. 00:05:52.438 --> 00:05:56.938 Honestly, I feel like everyone gets mad at browsers that aren't Chrome. 00:05:57.188 --> 00:05:59.968 So people get mad at Firefox, people get mad at Safari... 00:06:00.358 --> 00:06:05.088 when actually it's probably on the developers of websites and web apps for 00:06:05.088 --> 00:06:06.878 not testing on anything other than Chrome. 00:06:07.358 --> 00:06:12.442 And, you know, given the recent run of Twitter being Twitter, I guess... 00:06:12.777 --> 00:06:16.497 like Twitter being X, it's not surprising to me that this happens. 00:06:16.647 --> 00:06:18.474 I mean, a little, still, but... 00:06:18.495 --> 00:06:19.305 I don't know what to tell you. 00:06:19.803 --> 00:06:22.133 There are some good things about clipboards. 00:06:22.223 --> 00:06:26.773 Ever since I moved everything over to the Apple ecosystem- I have like a Mac mini, 00:06:26.773 --> 00:06:31.543 I have a Mac Studio, I have an iPhone, I have a MacBook- I can copy from some 00:06:31.543 --> 00:06:33.533 device and paste into another device. 00:06:33.863 --> 00:06:36.683 So, banking apps tend to be on phones for security reasons. 00:06:36.693 --> 00:06:37.853 You have face ID and everything. 00:06:38.203 --> 00:06:41.928 And then I usually fill forms out on desktop because that's convenient. 00:06:41.928 --> 00:06:46.388 So you can just open the banking app, hit copy and then paste into the desktop. 00:06:46.418 --> 00:06:47.968 There's no like setup to do. 00:06:48.339 --> 00:06:51.399 They do even a crazier Continuity things where you can if you have two 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:54.739 computers, you can just move the mouse to the edge of one of the screens and 00:06:54.739 --> 00:06:56.389 it'll appear on the other one magically. 00:06:56.509 --> 00:07:01.439 A feature that is cool when it works, and then I'm sure exactly twelve people on 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:05.034 earth know about, because I don't think they've done any effort in trying to tell 00:07:05.034 --> 00:07:08.754 people that it's there so people just download third party apps instead that 00:07:08.754 --> 00:07:10.254 are worse and they need to pay money for. 00:07:10.264 --> 00:07:11.874 I don't know if you mentioned it because you mentioned 00:07:11.874 --> 00:07:13.724 that xclip works on Linux. 00:07:13.724 --> 00:07:17.184 It took me forever to realize that on macOS they also have pbcopy? 00:07:17.204 --> 00:07:19.374 Which I don't know if is built in or whatever, but they have a 00:07:19.374 --> 00:07:23.602 similar sort of you can pipe a bunch of stuff into a command line 00:07:23.612 --> 00:07:25.282 and then paste it somewhere else. 00:07:25.282 --> 00:07:29.312 I'm just, you know, Ctrl+C Ctrl+V all over the place kind of person. 00:07:29.550 --> 00:07:33.470 If I had to summarize everything we've seen so far, we have 00:07:33.470 --> 00:07:38.680 learned that operating systems, or like, windowing systems, it's fuzzy, okay? 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:40.820 The nomenclature is- don't, don't sue me. 00:07:41.150 --> 00:07:46.810 Operating systems have multiple clipboards, for X- based systems and 00:07:46.810 --> 00:07:48.430 I'm assuming Wayland also copies this. 00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:49.080 I have no idea. 00:07:49.090 --> 00:07:50.380 I don't, don't at me about Wayland. 00:07:50.380 --> 00:07:51.090 I don't care anymore. 00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:56.060 For X, there's a primary selection buffer and clipboard selection buffer. 00:07:56.290 --> 00:08:00.760 On macOS, there's also a different set of paste boards as they call it. 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:02.990 So nothing, none of that is actually called a clipboard. 00:08:03.070 --> 00:08:05.860 Like clipboard is just the name of one X selection buffer. 00:08:06.255 --> 00:08:07.675 But there's no clipboard on macOS. 00:08:07.695 --> 00:08:08.505 It's a pasteboard. 00:08:08.525 --> 00:08:09.695 Hence the name pbcopy. 00:08:09.695 --> 00:08:11.675 We're talking about the pbcopy CLI tool. 00:08:11.675 --> 00:08:12.845 That's pasteboard copy. 00:08:13.375 --> 00:08:15.155 Uh, but it still has a bunch of different pasteboards. 00:08:15.175 --> 00:08:17.305 It has the general one, it has the drag one. 00:08:17.575 --> 00:08:21.715 For example, when I use one of my new favorite tools on Mac- well, it's not new, 00:08:21.715 --> 00:08:24.485 but it's new to me- called CleanShot X. 00:08:25.045 --> 00:08:28.562 It's just a screenshotting tool that is better than the built in MacOS one. 00:08:28.862 --> 00:08:31.452 And instead of putting the image in the general pasteboard. 00:08:31.502 --> 00:08:34.232 It has it floating as a window and then you can drag the 00:08:34.232 --> 00:08:35.312 window wherever you want to. 00:08:35.512 --> 00:08:38.386 And what that does is that it doesn't override whatever 00:08:38.386 --> 00:08:39.426 you had in the clipboard. 00:08:39.706 --> 00:08:44.566 So actually this was super useful when coming up with that slide deck because 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:46.483 it didn't override what I had in there... 00:08:46.503 --> 00:08:50.472 because I was taking screenshots of a tool called pasteboard viewer. 00:08:50.832 --> 00:08:56.272 Not only do we have multiple clipboards, each clipboard can have multiple items. 00:08:56.272 --> 00:08:59.562 This makes sense if you think of like selecting a bunch of files in 00:08:59.572 --> 00:09:00.902 the finder and then copying them. 00:09:00.912 --> 00:09:02.472 Each of those files is one item. 00:09:03.062 --> 00:09:06.332 And then also items can be available in several formats. 00:09:06.562 --> 00:09:09.827 And that's where, if you have access to the slides, again, 00:09:09.897 --> 00:09:10.817 you know where to find them. 00:09:10.997 --> 00:09:14.370 But you will be able to see a little app called Pasteboard-Viewer 00:09:14.710 --> 00:09:16.200 made by sindresorhus. 00:09:16.220 --> 00:09:18.240 I'm definitely butchering that name, I'm sorry. 00:09:18.700 --> 00:09:21.240 It's a very nice app, it's free, it's open source, and it lets you 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.050 see what's in the macOS Pasteboard. 00:09:23.050 --> 00:09:24.740 And, uh, here's an example. 00:09:24.920 --> 00:09:30.620 When you copy two files, like I promised, you have two items, and they both have 00:09:31.155 --> 00:09:34.815 a format, or a representation, or a content type, or a MIME, I'm not even 00:09:34.815 --> 00:09:38.625 sure how to call it, a variance, a presentation, so many names you could 00:09:38.625 --> 00:09:43.595 call that, called public.file-url, which is a URL, starting with file:///. 00:09:43.905 --> 00:09:49.795 And then, not the path of the file that I copied, it's actually .file/id=, 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:55.635 some numbers dot some other numbers. 00:09:55.655 --> 00:09:57.065 That's the surprising part to me. 00:09:57.065 --> 00:09:59.935 Everything else makes sense so far, but this, I don't understand why 00:09:59.935 --> 00:10:01.125 it's not just the path of the file. 00:10:01.355 --> 00:10:06.227 I imagine it's because you can actually copy from a network drive, or I don't 00:10:06.227 --> 00:10:11.087 know, from inside of an archive, a mounted thing, but all of these have actual paths. 00:10:11.087 --> 00:10:13.007 You could like pass the copy on the command line. 00:10:13.027 --> 00:10:16.707 So I don't actually know why they're doing that, but I do understand that 00:10:17.097 --> 00:10:19.817 the contents of the file themselves are not actually in the clipboard. 00:10:19.817 --> 00:10:23.867 There's just a reference so that if you paste into an application that supports 00:10:23.867 --> 00:10:27.777 that, they will know where to find the files, where to get metadata about 00:10:27.777 --> 00:10:29.587 them, how to read them and everything. 00:10:30.202 --> 00:10:30.312 Yeah. 00:10:30.312 --> 00:10:35.192 I know like intents on Android or whatever are sort of similar in that, like you 00:10:35.192 --> 00:10:38.562 can declare that you can handle certain intents and that's how things like 00:10:38.562 --> 00:10:42.162 the "share to this app" happens is I'm sure they have something very similar. 00:10:42.162 --> 00:10:46.928 That's like- this is the, either a file path or like a pointer to the 00:10:46.958 --> 00:10:52.578 whatever buffer or some output like how programs talk to each other 00:10:52.578 --> 00:10:56.795 especially in a GUI world is something totally out of my knowledge area. 00:10:57.029 --> 00:10:59.832 Yeah, but the weird thing is that the file protocol, 00:10:59.852 --> 00:11:02.052 it's just like HTTP or HTTPS. 00:11:02.112 --> 00:11:04.332 It's an actual protocol and it actually works. 00:11:04.332 --> 00:11:06.972 You can open file URLs in your browser. 00:11:07.273 --> 00:11:09.393 The thing is that this one doesn't exist. 00:11:09.493 --> 00:11:11.453 So this is the part I cannot explain. 00:11:11.473 --> 00:11:13.663 I promised there were some things I still don't understand. 00:11:13.663 --> 00:11:14.483 This is one of them. 00:11:14.513 --> 00:11:15.522 This does not exist. 00:11:15.522 --> 00:11:17.892 If you try to stat it in the terminal, it does not exist. 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:22.498 The other interesting thing is that when you copy two files from the finder, 00:11:22.508 --> 00:11:27.098 the first item in the pasteboard, the general pasteboard, if we're going 00:11:27.098 --> 00:11:34.353 to be specific about it, has a UTF-8 plain text representation, which 00:11:34.363 --> 00:11:36.433 is just the two names of the files. 00:11:36.813 --> 00:11:39.923 So if you were to, like, copy two files and paste that into a text editor, for 00:11:39.923 --> 00:11:43.572 example, you would just have the file names, which is knowledge that I've never 00:11:43.572 --> 00:11:46.133 used, but yeah, if you just need, in a script like a list of files, you can 00:11:47.073 --> 00:11:50.443 just copy them from Finder and paste them into your text editor and you would 00:11:50.463 --> 00:11:51.663 get that list of all the file names. 00:11:52.761 --> 00:11:54.932 They also have a UTF-16 version of that. 00:11:54.942 --> 00:11:57.732 Now, I don't know the implementation details. 00:11:57.782 --> 00:11:59.722 Is it an API that converts on the fly? 00:11:59.752 --> 00:12:02.872 I really hope it does, because otherwise it means when you select a really, 00:12:02.872 --> 00:12:06.783 really, really long text, what it does is it takes the normal UTF8 version 00:12:06.783 --> 00:12:10.876 of it and then also creates a UTF-16 version, which is probably twice as large, 00:12:10.916 --> 00:12:12.531 roughly, just to put in the clipboard. 00:12:12.563 --> 00:12:16.722 I know Windows is heavily UTF-16 based, or is it UCS2? 00:12:16.792 --> 00:12:17.572 I keep forgetting. 00:12:17.902 --> 00:12:19.462 Or is it WTF something? 00:12:19.672 --> 00:12:20.172 I don't know. 00:12:20.377 --> 00:12:24.377 WTF8 is fun but yeah, I don't, I, wide char, I don't know what 00:12:24.377 --> 00:12:28.427 wide char is if that's UC2 or UTF-16. 00:12:28.877 --> 00:12:32.317 Windows is weird because at first it was like, okay, we have ASCII, we 00:12:32.317 --> 00:12:36.387 have like seven bits and then one that's useless so we can do code pages so that 00:12:36.387 --> 00:12:39.257 the upper 128 characters can be accents. 00:12:39.267 --> 00:12:42.337 It's mostly going to be like French accents or whatever latent stuff. 00:12:42.557 --> 00:12:44.597 And then they were like, "Okay, no, there's a lot more later. 00:12:44.597 --> 00:12:46.187 So we're going to do UTF-16." 00:12:46.717 --> 00:12:49.477 And then they were like, "Well, now the rest of the world is kind of 00:12:49.487 --> 00:12:53.757 standardized on UTF-8," so actually there's a code page that's like, instead 00:12:53.757 --> 00:12:59.034 of ASCII, it's now UTF-8, but it's a mishmash of a lot of different things. 00:12:59.324 --> 00:13:01.794 I've come to appreciate the Apple approach a lot more, 00:13:01.794 --> 00:13:03.154 where they just deprecate stuff. 00:13:03.204 --> 00:13:04.844 They're just like, "No, this doesn't work anymore. 00:13:05.134 --> 00:13:05.734 Screw you." 00:13:05.944 --> 00:13:09.351 Whereas Windows is like, "Well, yeah, we, we kind of try to 00:13:09.351 --> 00:13:10.621 keep everything working..." 00:13:10.631 --> 00:13:13.301 and then it kind of doesn't actually, I don't know. 00:13:14.201 --> 00:13:16.871 There was an awkward future point and I think Java and Windows 00:13:16.871 --> 00:13:19.731 both got hit by it where they're like we need something other than ASCII and 00:13:19.731 --> 00:13:25.031 alternative code pages and UTF-8 didn't exist yet or at least wasn't popular 00:13:25.031 --> 00:13:29.941 and they committed hard to UTF-16 and oops, that was not the format that won. 00:13:30.411 --> 00:13:33.341 They chose the Betamax of uh, string formats. 00:13:33.341 --> 00:13:33.911 That's harsh. 00:13:33.911 --> 00:13:36.820 I think Betamax was actually technologically superior or something. 00:13:36.875 --> 00:13:37.469 That's fair. 00:13:37.469 --> 00:13:40.911 I don't think UTF-16 is like paying twice as much for the most 00:13:40.931 --> 00:13:42.701 common letters is not a good format. 00:13:43.031 --> 00:13:43.321 Fair. 00:13:43.871 --> 00:13:45.311 More pasteboard explorations. 00:13:45.411 --> 00:13:49.641 When you copy an image from Safari, this is the case I had where the 00:13:49.641 --> 00:13:54.053 reason you saw the tweet composer is because I manually cross post between 00:13:54.093 --> 00:13:56.463 BlueSky, Mastodon, and Twitter. 00:13:56.793 --> 00:14:01.253 So depending on which composer I use first and then I copy to the others, I 00:14:01.263 --> 00:14:06.798 get that freaking camera emoji and I have to paste into the preview app first and 00:14:06.798 --> 00:14:08.978 then copy from there, and then that works? 00:14:09.768 --> 00:14:12.508 Anyway, when you copy an image from Safari, this is what 00:14:12.508 --> 00:14:13.478 you have in the pasteboard. 00:14:13.478 --> 00:14:15.718 There's so many different representations here. 00:14:15.878 --> 00:14:19.048 There's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 of them. 00:14:19.598 --> 00:14:20.708 It's kind of amazing. 00:14:20.808 --> 00:14:25.028 Again, I hope some of them are built lazily, like they're getters that are 00:14:25.208 --> 00:14:28.218 computed on the fly because otherwise it's a lot of computations, just 00:14:28.228 --> 00:14:31.128 when you're hitting command C, no, no wonder sometimes it just lags. 00:14:31.378 --> 00:14:36.058 One of the representations is called public.url and it's- I think it's 00:14:36.058 --> 00:14:40.948 the reason we see that little camera emoji in the tweet composer is 00:14:40.948 --> 00:14:42.968 because the URL is not an actual URL. 00:14:42.978 --> 00:14:46.538 It's a blob URL, which is not HTTP, it's not HTTPS. 00:14:46.558 --> 00:14:47.598 It's not a file. 00:14:47.818 --> 00:14:50.918 It's not even a version of file that doesn't exist, like what happens 00:14:50.918 --> 00:14:52.418 when you copy from the finder. 00:14:52.668 --> 00:14:53.588 It's a blob URL. 00:14:53.588 --> 00:14:56.478 So it's only valid within a certain context. 00:14:56.938 --> 00:15:02.986 What happens is when you paste an image into Phanpy, a Mastodon client 00:15:02.986 --> 00:15:08.556 I really like, it stores it as a blob, which is just a collection of bytes. 00:15:08.736 --> 00:15:11.696 And then you get this UUID. 00:15:11.696 --> 00:15:13.446 What's the actual meaning of UUID? 00:15:13.496 --> 00:15:14.926 There's unique in there somewhere. 00:15:14.931 --> 00:15:16.661 Universally unique identifier? 00:15:17.136 --> 00:15:17.586 There you go. 00:15:18.346 --> 00:15:21.086 You get this universally unique identifier, and 00:15:21.086 --> 00:15:22.751 that's the name of the blob. 00:15:23.131 --> 00:15:26.969 And then you can refer to it, but you can see it's prefixed by phanpy.social. 00:15:27.099 --> 00:15:28.499 So it's only valid for this thing. 00:15:28.499 --> 00:15:31.069 So if you actually paste that somewhere else, then it doesn't 00:15:31.069 --> 00:15:31.689 know what to do with it. 00:15:31.699 --> 00:15:34.759 It has no way of getting the original data, but the original 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.069 data is actually there as a TIFF. 00:15:37.266 --> 00:15:38.808 When's the last time you saw a TIFF, James? 00:15:39.363 --> 00:15:40.683 I could not tell you. 00:15:40.753 --> 00:15:42.663 Intentionally, probably a decade. 00:15:42.663 --> 00:15:44.293 And yet here it is as a TIFF. 00:15:44.303 --> 00:15:50.423 It's a 2.8 megabyte file for 900 pixels, uh, by 800. 00:15:51.233 --> 00:15:54.906 It is screenshot I took, for sure, just in a weird format. 00:15:54.936 --> 00:15:58.254 Again, something I'm assuming Apple committed to a long time ago, 00:15:58.254 --> 00:16:00.934 and now that's just, that's just what's in the clipboard, I guess. 00:16:01.367 --> 00:16:02.707 But it doesn't stop there. 00:16:03.707 --> 00:16:05.457 You also have it as a web archive. 00:16:05.477 --> 00:16:06.377 What's a web archive? 00:16:06.377 --> 00:16:07.267 I'm so glad you asked. 00:16:07.447 --> 00:16:10.557 It's pretty much what you have if you try to save a web page. 00:16:10.557 --> 00:16:14.197 Like if you hit file save in your browser and it says well I could save 00:16:14.217 --> 00:16:16.827 only the HTML but then you wouldn't have images, you wouldn't have 00:16:16.917 --> 00:16:18.597 CSS, you wouldn't have Javascript. 00:16:19.157 --> 00:16:21.817 So how about I save everything for you? 00:16:22.217 --> 00:16:23.637 It's kind of a zip but not really. 00:16:23.857 --> 00:16:27.907 Because actually it's a binary property list in that case, 00:16:27.937 --> 00:16:29.137 which is a very Apple thing. 00:16:29.538 --> 00:16:32.288 And is here shown, I think as XML 00:16:32.384 --> 00:16:34.633 In all the joy of XML yeah, I was gonna say 00:16:35.173 --> 00:16:36.713 It's even Base64 encoded. 00:16:36.713 --> 00:16:39.723 I don't think it actually is Base64 encoded in the... 00:16:39.754 --> 00:16:43.397 I think this is just the Pasteboard Viewer app showing it to us 00:16:43.537 --> 00:16:44.931 in a way that is structured. 00:16:45.157 --> 00:16:50.243 Moving on, we have another format called com.apple.flat-rtfd. 00:16:50.833 --> 00:16:53.403 RTF does mean Rich Text Format. 00:16:53.568 --> 00:16:55.158 Your instinct is correct. 00:16:55.708 --> 00:17:01.678 And then I don't know what the D stands for, but flat means that it's an archive 00:17:01.988 --> 00:17:05.018 of rich text plus its attachments. 00:17:05.068 --> 00:17:11.038 So this is actually a rich text format document that contains the 00:17:11.038 --> 00:17:13.175 image, but this time as a PNG. 00:17:13.246 --> 00:17:16.566 I didn't realize that systemd got into RTF documents too. 00:17:17.036 --> 00:17:18.536 This is my RTF daemon. 00:17:18.596 --> 00:17:20.646 RTF is, is worth its own episode. 00:17:20.646 --> 00:17:24.956 I think you can see a little bit of the markup in the slide right now. 00:17:25.243 --> 00:17:26.114 It's very interesting. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:32.310 Because I like the Pasteboard Viewer tool that much, I did a bunch more slides with 00:17:32.340 --> 00:17:35.120 what actually ends up in the pasteboard when you copy from different places. 00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:39.440 And I was curious about this specific node that is zoomed in but is part of the UI 00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:44.930 for a slides code highlighter, a tool by Roman Nurik, which lets you paste your 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:49.655 own code as plain text and then colorizes it and then you can copy it back. 00:17:50.145 --> 00:17:54.175 And it says if you're pasting into Keynote the Apple presentation tool 00:17:54.185 --> 00:17:58.115 you should copy from Safari but if you're pasting into Google Slides then 00:17:58.115 --> 00:18:01.285 you should copy from Chrome so I was curious what the differences actually 00:18:01.285 --> 00:18:04.515 are what actually ends up in the in the pasteboard if you copy from Safari or 00:18:04.515 --> 00:18:06.465 from Chrome and so that's what I did. 00:18:07.355 --> 00:18:13.555 This is the result of copying from Safari and there's an RTF thing in there. 00:18:14.145 --> 00:18:18.905 It's taking the HTML, it's taking the colors, it's taking the fonts, it's 00:18:18.905 --> 00:18:24.175 taking the size, and it's again, like converting it to rich text format. 00:18:24.225 --> 00:18:28.445 And this, I didn't know yet, when I started researching this, but this is 00:18:28.455 --> 00:18:31.105 what Keynote uses if you paste into it. 00:18:31.115 --> 00:18:36.305 It doesn't use the HTML version at all, even though it also has the font, font 00:18:36.305 --> 00:18:38.885 face and size and color information. 00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:42.970 It uses the rich text format version, which is here rendered 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:44.410 poorly with the wrong font. 00:18:44.989 --> 00:18:45.479 This is like... 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:49.049 if it's asking you which you're copying and pasting from and to... 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.679 that gets into I guess like just the practicalities of 00:18:51.679 --> 00:18:53.524 the 'Who's encoding what?' 00:18:53.584 --> 00:18:56.824 It's like when my printer refuses to print a pdf and sometimes I open it 00:18:56.834 --> 00:19:00.134 in Chrome or whatever and then print to pdf and it re encodes the entire 00:19:00.134 --> 00:19:04.124 pdf and then sometimes my printer figures out what that format is, but... 00:19:05.014 --> 00:19:06.544 it's interesting that it's just... 00:19:07.264 --> 00:19:10.474 I guess this is your best encoding- like sender and 00:19:10.474 --> 00:19:13.144 receiver pairs known to work well. 00:19:13.614 --> 00:19:14.074 Exactly. 00:19:14.084 --> 00:19:14.834 But I was curious. 00:19:14.844 --> 00:19:18.824 So I looked at the HTML version of that pasteboard item. 00:19:18.824 --> 00:19:20.391 Cause again, it's one pasteboard item. 00:19:20.391 --> 00:19:23.181 We're copying one thing, but it's available in different formats. 00:19:23.661 --> 00:19:27.751 When copying from Safari, it's available as RTF, as I just mentioned, but also 00:19:27.781 --> 00:19:33.421 as UTF-8 plain text, a bunch of WebKit internal things, WebArchive again, for 00:19:33.421 --> 00:19:35.991 some reason, and then also just HTML. 00:19:36.511 --> 00:19:41.541 The difference between what Safari writes to the pasteboard and what 00:19:41.541 --> 00:19:45.891 Chrome writes to the pasteboard in terms of HTML is actually not that big. 00:19:45.891 --> 00:19:48.391 If you're looking at the slides, this is the Safari version. 00:19:48.561 --> 00:19:49.871 This is the Chrome version. 00:19:50.141 --> 00:19:54.391 I even did a diff so you can see the differences are mostly in like... 00:19:54.441 --> 00:19:59.641 the surrounding HTML element that it puts around the content that you're copying. 00:20:00.001 --> 00:20:01.901 And there's a few different defaults. 00:20:02.131 --> 00:20:04.241 orphans: 2 becomes orphans: auto. 00:20:04.291 --> 00:20:06.681 I didn't even know there was an orphans CSS property. 00:20:07.219 --> 00:20:09.566 Widows also surprised me. 00:20:09.801 --> 00:20:11.381 Not windows just widows. 00:20:11.461 --> 00:20:12.931 Widows, important. 00:20:13.291 --> 00:20:17.841 Text decoration, thickness, style, and color all get collapsed from 00:20:17.841 --> 00:20:20.891 initial into text decoration none, which is the shorthand. 00:20:21.411 --> 00:20:24.795 So it's just like the default stuff it puts around the HTML 00:20:24.815 --> 00:20:26.255 version of whatever you're copying. 00:20:26.915 --> 00:20:30.275 And the reason that tool exists and the reason it's useful is 00:20:30.275 --> 00:20:36.353 because it styles every span of code individually with inline CSS and that 00:20:36.353 --> 00:20:37.823 ends up in the pasteboard as well. 00:20:38.278 --> 00:20:42.898 Whereas if you had like CSS classes and then rules for those CSS classes, 00:20:42.918 --> 00:20:44.348 it would not necessarily do that. 00:20:44.378 --> 00:20:48.238 It would not pick up on the styles that are applied from the style sheets, 00:20:48.238 --> 00:20:49.868 but that are not in line on the nodes. 00:20:50.166 --> 00:20:52.386 I know on Linux, there's a command line tool 00:20:52.456 --> 00:20:54.606 that does syntax highlighting. 00:20:54.636 --> 00:20:55.716 I forget what it is, but it's... 00:20:55.726 --> 00:20:56.666 There's Pygments... 00:20:56.686 --> 00:20:58.596 Pygments is exactly the one that I'm thinking of. 00:20:58.616 --> 00:21:02.656 And it does the exact same thing where it's just the HTML output that it 00:21:02.677 --> 00:21:07.257 produces is super verbose because it's does inline CSS for every element. 00:21:07.267 --> 00:21:13.325 So when you have some fairly benign looking code, there might be 12 CSS 00:21:13.326 --> 00:21:16.987 chunks in one line because it's going to highlight your variable and the equal 00:21:16.987 --> 00:21:19.148 sign and the numbers all different. 00:21:19.158 --> 00:21:22.457 And that's pretty- I have looked at that one before and it looks a lot like that. 00:21:22.457 --> 00:21:24.877 And it's probably why that exists like that. 00:21:25.627 --> 00:21:27.037 I am aware of such tools. 00:21:27.037 --> 00:21:30.027 And that's actually the first thing I address in my articles, like: I 00:21:30.027 --> 00:21:31.657 know there's existing solutions. 00:21:31.887 --> 00:21:35.717 But I did code highlighting the way I like it on my website. 00:21:35.717 --> 00:21:38.577 And so that's why I wanted that pipeline of like, I'm writing the 00:21:38.577 --> 00:21:42.917 article, I'm pasting the code one place already, which is inside the markdown. 00:21:43.407 --> 00:21:46.407 And then it's highlighted exactly the way I want it. 00:21:46.437 --> 00:21:48.967 And I want that to appear as-is in the presentation. 00:21:49.237 --> 00:21:50.267 So I'm not using Pygments. 00:21:50.267 --> 00:21:53.207 I'm not using- I'm sure Pandoc or something can do something like that. 00:21:53.567 --> 00:21:55.137 There's existing tools, but... 00:21:55.812 --> 00:21:58.217 Yeah, I want to automate things much as possible and keep them 00:21:58.217 --> 00:22:00.167 close to the way that I like them. 00:22:00.404 --> 00:22:07.804 And to achieve that, it means that I have to be able to copy code from my website, 00:22:07.924 --> 00:22:10.924 not the production version of my website, because when I draft an article, it's not 00:22:10.924 --> 00:22:13.384 actually available on fasterthanli.me. 00:22:13.704 --> 00:22:14.914 It's only available locally. 00:22:14.914 --> 00:22:16.912 I'm running the same software locally. 00:22:16.912 --> 00:22:19.144 It's serving it on port 1111. 00:22:19.402 --> 00:22:22.652 But I have the same interface and every code block has a little copy button that 00:22:22.662 --> 00:22:27.665 only I can see and that actually writes to the pasteboard and that means I need 00:22:27.665 --> 00:22:29.455 to use the browser APIs to do that. 00:22:30.155 --> 00:22:37.264 Luckily, the browser APIs for clipboard actually mirror reality more or less. 00:22:37.616 --> 00:22:42.180 I don't think they expose the fact that there's different clipboards 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:42.960 or pasteboard or selection buffers. 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.880 I think it just uses the clipboard selection buffer on X. 00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:50.410 It just uses the general pasteboard on macOS and don't ask me about 00:22:50.410 --> 00:22:51.580 other platforms, I'm tired. 00:22:51.907 --> 00:22:55.117 But it has the idea that you can write multiple items to it. 00:22:55.397 --> 00:22:57.727 So you can like download multiple files probably. 00:22:57.907 --> 00:23:01.587 It has the idea that every item can be available in different formats. 00:23:02.127 --> 00:23:07.067 So you can have, for example, an item available as HTML and text so that it 00:23:07.067 --> 00:23:11.577 could be formatted if you paste it into a capable application or just text, 00:23:11.597 --> 00:23:13.267 if you paste it into something else. 00:23:13.277 --> 00:23:16.697 And they don't have to strip the HTML tags themselves or just be incompatible. 00:23:17.288 --> 00:23:20.988 They even thought about use cases like... 00:23:21.523 --> 00:23:24.803 you know, maybe people have diagrams on their websites, you know, people 00:23:24.803 --> 00:23:28.883 like me and they want to copy those and paste them into presentation 00:23:28.883 --> 00:23:30.493 software that actually supports them. 00:23:30.693 --> 00:23:37.154 Now, unfortunately, for years now, you have not been able to paste those into 00:23:37.174 --> 00:23:39.294 Google Slides or even upload them. 00:23:39.534 --> 00:23:43.210 It just goes, "Oh, your EMF file is invalid." 00:23:43.890 --> 00:23:45.080 I just uploaded an SVG. 00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:47.800 First of all, it's not even what? 00:23:48.100 --> 00:23:51.150 But then also there's a lot of workarounds or like: yeah, if you upload it to 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:55.400 like a free online suite to convert it to a different format, and then 00:23:55.400 --> 00:24:00.110 you run a script on Google Workspaces to change the MIME type, because 00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:02.250 there's a bug since of two years ago. 00:24:02.915 --> 00:24:07.385 Or like if you import it as a PowerPoint document into Google Drive and then 00:24:07.385 --> 00:24:11.855 copy from one tab to the other, then it keeps the shapes, but actually no, 00:24:11.855 --> 00:24:13.627 some people say it rasterizes it as PNG. 00:24:14.428 --> 00:24:17.538 The point is you cannot do vector graphics in Google Slides. 00:24:17.618 --> 00:24:18.409 Don't even try. 00:24:18.459 --> 00:24:20.254 User experience is my passion. 00:24:21.312 --> 00:24:24.802 But you can paste it in software like Keynote, which... 00:24:25.232 --> 00:24:26.592 Mostly I think by accident. 00:24:26.592 --> 00:24:29.442 I think like Apple invested in RTF, Apple invested in SVG, 00:24:30.322 --> 00:24:31.702 also internally for the OS. 00:24:31.742 --> 00:24:33.892 I'm pretty sure I didn't- I didn't fact check that. 00:24:34.211 --> 00:24:40.321 And as a result, you can just paste text with formatting as RTF and also diagrams 00:24:40.471 --> 00:24:42.241 as SVG, and it'll just do the right thing. 00:24:42.241 --> 00:24:43.881 It has, it's all integrated in the renderer. 00:24:43.881 --> 00:24:46.241 It's very, they didn't have to add support for it. 00:24:46.241 --> 00:24:47.681 It's just something they've been doing for years. 00:24:48.381 --> 00:24:54.831 So because SVG is supported by Safari and because web browser clipboard 00:24:54.831 --> 00:25:00.241 APIs have the ability to have items be available in different formats 00:25:00.241 --> 00:25:01.881 and tell which MIME type it is. 00:25:02.246 --> 00:25:05.186 And because SVG is a text format, so you don't have like weird 00:25:05.196 --> 00:25:08.156 things about binary or like, it's actually impossible to generate from 00:25:08.156 --> 00:25:10.006 JavaScript because binary is weird. 00:25:10.886 --> 00:25:15.154 You'd think you would just be able to write some code that writes some SVG into 00:25:15.154 --> 00:25:19.864 the clipboard, and then you can paste it into Keynote, and then everyone's happy. 00:25:20.034 --> 00:25:26.944 But, actually, if you look at the compatibility matrix out of caniuse. 00:25:26.944 --> 00:25:29.682 What's name of that domain again? 00:25:30.182 --> 00:25:32.762 I just know 'caniuse', but I know exactly what you're talking about. 00:25:33.422 --> 00:25:34.922 Right, it's just caniuse.com. 00:25:35.132 --> 00:25:36.952 I was thinking of the caniuse.rs. 00:25:36.972 --> 00:25:37.782 There's one for Rust. 00:25:38.613 --> 00:25:42.913 Unfortunately, Safari is one of the browsers that does not support writing 00:25:42.933 --> 00:25:46.793 items of type image slash SVG plus XML. 00:25:47.357 --> 00:25:51.439 If we summarize the status quo of support between browsers and presentation 00:25:51.439 --> 00:25:56.779 software, and all I really want to do is to just copy code as rich text, I just 00:25:56.779 --> 00:25:59.029 want colors and fonts and font sizes. 00:25:59.419 --> 00:26:00.269 It's not crazy. 00:26:00.639 --> 00:26:02.299 And copying diagrams as SVG. 00:26:03.099 --> 00:26:05.649 I have this little slide here that kind of summarizes everything. 00:26:05.949 --> 00:26:09.419 Safari doesn't let you copy SVG into the clipboard. 00:26:09.549 --> 00:26:14.129 Chrome doesn't copy colored text as RTF. 00:26:14.869 --> 00:26:22.619 Keynote doesn't read HTML, CSS and apply the styles from the clipboard and Google 00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:27.499 Slides doesn't read RTF from the clipboard and also doesn't let you paste SVG. 00:26:27.819 --> 00:26:30.999 So, as of now, there is no combination of tools that I can 00:26:30.999 --> 00:26:33.449 actually use to do my work properly. 00:26:33.875 --> 00:26:36.395 So at what point do you write a utility that just listens to 00:26:36.395 --> 00:26:40.755 the clipboard and whenever it sees clipboard data just re exports it in all 00:26:40.765 --> 00:26:43.355 three of these formats automatically? 00:26:43.355 --> 00:26:47.655 So whenever you copy it just replaces your copy buffer with like the maximally 00:26:49.675 --> 00:26:52.855 implemented version, number of version formats. 00:26:53.042 --> 00:26:53.582 Well. 00:26:53.607 --> 00:26:54.097 Oh no. 00:26:55.362 --> 00:26:57.932 If you search for Rust crates that let you write to the 00:26:57.932 --> 00:27:03.822 clipboard, you will see an open pull request for myself adding the... 00:27:04.233 --> 00:27:05.866 what did I actually add there? 00:27:06.006 --> 00:27:09.386 I think I was only concerned with HTML at that point, but yeah, adding the 00:27:09.386 --> 00:27:13.806 ability to specify different content types on macOS, but the problem 00:27:13.806 --> 00:27:15.006 is that it supports all platforms. 00:27:15.016 --> 00:27:17.956 So they would only accept the pull request that adds it for all platforms at once. 00:27:18.006 --> 00:27:22.011 And again, I don't know what the frick's going on with Wayland and X11 these days. 00:27:22.651 --> 00:27:27.211 But yeah, because I'm running a local server anyway, I can just, when you 00:27:27.211 --> 00:27:32.051 click the, the copy button, I can just send a message to the server, which 00:27:32.051 --> 00:27:37.419 is then going to write to the system clipboard with all the might of native 00:27:37.419 --> 00:27:41.259 code and not just the browser API going like, "No, sorry, this MIME type string 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:44.599 is something we will take another couple of years to support because..." 00:27:44.967 --> 00:27:45.667 Because why? 00:27:45.757 --> 00:27:49.475 So actually pretty much this whole episode is a cry for help. 00:27:49.665 --> 00:27:53.465 If you work on the Safari team, if you know someone who works on the Safari 00:27:53.465 --> 00:27:59.785 team, please tell them to just add support for image slash SVG plus XML. 00:28:00.325 --> 00:28:00.815 Please. 00:28:00.915 --> 00:28:01.505 It's for me. 00:28:01.505 --> 00:28:02.195 It's for Amos. 00:28:02.195 --> 00:28:02.835 You know me. 00:28:02.935 --> 00:28:04.105 You've seen me in videos. 00:28:04.425 --> 00:28:05.355 Just add support. 00:28:05.405 --> 00:28:07.575 It's- I'm sure it's a two line change on your end! 00:28:07.835 --> 00:28:09.985 I'll run technology preview if I have to. 00:28:10.285 --> 00:28:11.305 Just please add it. 00:28:11.845 --> 00:28:12.275 Please? 00:28:12.358 --> 00:28:15.938 I think the podcast is the perfect place for calling in favors 00:28:15.938 --> 00:28:20.018 from people who happen to work at tech companies and can just make those PRs. 00:28:20.963 --> 00:28:22.129 It's like that person who... 00:28:22.263 --> 00:28:23.609 uh, is probably apocryphal... 00:28:23.628 --> 00:28:27.008 the person who joined a company just so they could fix a bug and then quit 00:28:27.028 --> 00:28:28.588 immediately after fixing the bug. 00:28:29.023 --> 00:28:30.423 I think that actually happened... 00:28:31.068 --> 00:28:32.108 it wouldn't surprise me. 00:28:32.573 --> 00:28:34.673 More times than, than, than we have on the record. 00:28:34.673 --> 00:28:35.103 Probably. 00:28:35.718 --> 00:28:37.548 It's too good of a story to be true, but it's 00:28:37.878 --> 00:28:39.298 too good of a story to pass up. 00:28:44.986 --> 00:28:47.266 This episode is sponsored by CodeCrafters. 00:28:47.454 --> 00:28:50.724 CodeCrafters is a service for learning 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That's sdr-podcast.com/codecrafters. 00:29:27.064 --> 00:29:29.444 Thanks to CodeCrafters for sponsoring this episode.